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Sedans Pontiac G8 2008 Pontiac G8
1265 messages, Last post on Jul 21, 2009 at 10:14 AM
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The fuss is based on the FACT that American automobile manufacturers that had once made that transformed the automobile into everything from an affordable form of mass transportation to truly sublime products envied all over the planet have since relinquished that role to foreign manufacturers. In the 1960s American Cadillac Fleetwoods, not Benzes (except in German speaking countries), nor BMWs, nor Audis, nor Jags (except in the UK) were the choice of the tycoons and heads of state. I dare anyone to name one celebrity or head of state outside the US who currently drives a Cadillac in their native land. Current American made automotive products (including models made exclusively for the US market in the US by foreign car makers such as the Japanese and Koreans) have only one purpose. Making the manufacturer a quick profit and keeping Americans addicted to conspicuous consumption and that formerly inexpensive drug, gasoline. Jeremy Clarkson, the BBCs Top Gear host, though himself no a stranger to hyperbole, came to the same conclusion in his "Good, Bad & Ugly" comparison of American cars and SUVs in California. He posed a reasonable question: How is it that the nation that makes the Nimitz class nuclear aircraft carrier, the Trident class nuclear submarine, and the Space Shuttle, can get it "so wrong" that 5.5 billion other people on the planet will absolutely not buy our domestic made cars? Except for a few Vettes and the Ford GT. Manufacturers constantly use hyperbole such as comparisons to similar products beyond the market level of their own product to market. That is called commercial advertising. Even professional automotive reviewers will use hyperbole to extol the virtues of a product. Likely without such sensational comparisons, pure technical writing about what are basically machines might otherwise come across as ... well rather dry and technical. Again while the G8 GT is attractive and has some positive attributes, as many professional car reviewers have written "it may be regarded by some as the Wrong Car at the Wrong Time" for both GM and American consumers. Only time will tell but my personal belief is that GM (and Ford which also has a global presence) can do a heck and a lot better at making what American consumers need, rather than merely what their passing fancies desire. SEE: http://www.cars.com/go/crp/research.jsp?revid=53137&indcriteria=ASSET_TYPE-A- - ffiliate+Review%2cBuying+Guide%2cVehicle+Profile%7cM-_40_%7cD-_8816_%7cY-_2008_%- - - 7cresultStructure-combined&revlogtype=19&makeid=40&modelid=8816&year=2008&myid=&- - - revlogtype=19§ion=reviews&mode=&aff=national ALSO: http://www.cars.com/go/crp/research.jsp?ASSET_TYPE=Affiliate+Review%2CBuying+Gui- - - de%2CVehicle+Profile&revlogtype=17§ion=reviews&makeid=40&modelid=8816&year=2- - - 008
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Replying to: athens (May 24, 2008 5:48 am) Why did I buy a BMW in 2006? Exactly what you said...US autos have morphed into non desirable appliances for both quality and design AFAIC. You can't tell me BMW, Audi and Merc-class cars can not be topped by the US. There is no desire to do so to date. That is what makes me so defiant. In the 60's Caddy was KING. Pontiac was KING. Oldsmobile was HOT. Chevy was PASSION. What the heck happened?? Greed. No passion, no sale. Regards,
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Replying to: circlew (May 24, 2008 7:01 am) -mike |
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More accurately that is the FANTASY that we Americans have become accustomed to for the past 30 years. Frivolous and disposable consumerism supported by high ratios of personal debt. NOW, as a result of living that DREAM, Americans and American businesses will see REALITY. A reality which this generation will likely have to pay for by working well into old age because they cannot afford to retire. All in the name of "Disposable Consumerism". |
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for me, the g8 gt was the right car at the right time. i didn't even bother looking at bimmers or mercs because in order to get the options you want...you are unloading at least 40k from your pocket...and always for a car that offers less room and barely better performance than the g8 gt. the g8 is the first rwd car from gm in a long time that offers performance, reasonable nvh and good driving characteristics all in an attractive package that lists for around 30k. it's the rwd performance bargain of the year imo! even though gm uses high brow bimmers in some of its comparisons, it's really the chrysler rwd cars that are it's competition.
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Replying to: emale (May 24, 2008 2:50 pm) Regards, OW |
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Replying to: circlew (May 24, 2008 7:01 am) And, your summation....GREED! While other countries look 5+ years out, and are willing to take a short-term profit hit for a long term gain, US auto makers look primarily at the short term. The proof is the recent re-introduction of low-mileage high performance cars when gas prices are rising exponentially. If gas prices stay at their current levels, all of these models will disappear in 2-3 years due to the limited sales potential. Technically, however, there is absolutely NO reason the US couldn't be leading the pack...if the manufacturers were so inclined.... |
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i'm usually the last one to run to detroit's defense. however, when cars like the g8 and challenger, etc, were on the drawing board some 2 to 3 years ago fuel prices were much cheaper than they are now. not too many people expected gas to reach 4 bucks a gallon in such a short time. nonetheless, detroit did bury their heads in the high profit truck/suv sand, and recent energy cost spikes have really hurt them because of the declining market for said vehicles. but, anyway, the real reason for this post is to point out that the costs to engineer/produce the g8 were likely relatively minor. the assembly plant was already in existence in australia...and several other vehicles are built at the same plant; and on the same platform/chassis. therefore, gm is not solely reliant on the success of the g8 to make a profit off this platform. the pontiac division needed some excitement, and i think the g8 helps in those regards...even if it isn't the most thrifty vehicle around...
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Replying to: emale (May 24, 2008 11:13 pm) The auto industry in the US merely wanted to continue to make profits using antiquated car designs until the moment our Government would drop the axe. This moment was inevitable. This was not the Myanmar cyclone, people. It has been a reality for the last 30+ years since the OPEC Oil Embargo of 1973. When we are constantly in a state of beligerency with the Arab nations and Russia ( and now Venezuela) who control the spigot on the resource which our large displacement cars and SUVs need what other result would any reasonable person expect. The Big Three have had to deal with it in Europe for 40 years because the fuel prices are so heavily taxed to offset their trade deficit based on oil importation from the Mid-east and to pay for public transport which can serve the vast majority of their population. Just look at the products that Opel, Vauxhall and Ford have offered there for decades. Fuel efficient. Else you pay a 35% tax (paid up front) and $2000 per year to register the car and another $3000 per year in insurance to drive a gas guzzler. Exxon-Mobil and Shell have had to drill into the ocean sea beds at depths of 10,000 feet for the past 10 years. Those companies used to pay $100,000 per day to rent the drill rigs. Now they pay $500,000 per day to lease the same rigs. That doesn't even include the per day cost to actually run the rig. You really believe the Big Three do not have access to this information or the geological reports? The Big 3 (and to be fair, foreign auto makers who exported mots of their gas swillers to the US) were just betting on our Government doing nothing about it because of their cozy relations and legislators living in the fantasy that Americans should have their fuel gulping toys and no one really cars about the state of public transport in the US. $4.50 per gallon gasoline, my friends, is NO GAS PRICE SPIKE. Considering that the per barrel price of un-refined crude oil has jumped by 100% since 2 years ago, we should really be at $5.20 per gallon retail. So Exxon-Mobil and BP and Shell are not deceiving us when they claim they are taking less profit now than two years ago on the final refined product. With OPEC predicting $200 per barrel costs we should be prepared to pay $5.50 per gallon by next summer. When the smoke alarm in your home goes off, you can smell the smoke and feel the heat of the flames, but you run to save your 30 year old beer can collection you are betting against the odds of surviving? This is precisely what the auto industry in America has done. And it has occurred largely because the American public preferred EXCITEMENT over ACCOUNTABILITY and RESPONSIBILITY. And the American auto industry was feeding it to the American public as it was financed by the consumers' tremendous personal debt. No matter whether an addictive drug is expensive or relatively cheap, the withdrawal will always be expensive. |
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Replying to: athens (May 23, 2008 1:26 pm) It's just in that same way that neither the Infiniti M nor even a BMW 550i directly compete with a Maserati Quattroporte or a Bentley Continental.” = = = I do not mean to suggest that the G8 GT is a ‘direct competitor’ to the BMW 550 or the Infiniti M45. Perhaps I was not clear. Basically, I see the G8 GT as providing a very large portion of the dynamic capabilities & related ‘goodness’ of the 550 & the M45 – at a relatively small portion of the price. Anyone who really does want ALL that the 550 or M45 offers ( I freely admit that the M45 has a ‘nicer’ interior, for example ) must pay BMW or Infiniti prices. This seems fair to me. If you want ( as I do ) the acceleration, handling, steering feel, braking and related aspects – in a package with comfortable & supportive seating for 4 adults – but do not also require ( or wish to pay for ) a plethora ( ? ) of luxury and amenities . . . well the G8 GT appears to fill the bill. It is certainly not that I don’t appreciate or see value in many of the luxury aspects of such sedans as the 550 & M45 – merely that one cannot buy a “strippo” 550 or M45. Meaning: a 550 or M45 with all the ‘stop, go, turn’ stuff, but without all the associated BMW-ness and Infiniti-ness. Although I am a professional, ( not a Dr. or Lawyer ) and although ( apparently, since I drive a $50K+ car ) I can ‘afford’ a 535 or M45 – or even a 550. . . I ( strongly ) prefer the G8 GT’s approach. Would I buy mine equipped with a HUD & cooled as well as heated seats, if those were offered as separate options? Assuming a reasonable price: Yes. But for just over $30K, I am very happy with what the G8 GT does offer – and at the price point, I can easily live without what it does not offer. And that looks like my likely next vehicle – an ’09 in 4 or 5 months. YMMV. - Ray Never intending to call the 550 or M45 direct competitors . . . |
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