Last post on Nov 30, 2010 at 8:21 AM
You are in the Pontiac G8
What is this discussion about?
Pontiac Grand Prix, Pontiac G8, Future Vehicle, Sedan
#440 of 1278 another GTO ?? Re: Competition? [circlew]
Jan 14, 2008 (6:46 am)
"Exactly...this might be a GTO story all the way to the end."
Although you may turn out to be correct
( we will not know for months )
I doubt it.
IMHO, the exterior styling of the GTO ( and the fact that many perceived it as somewhere between ‘bland’ and ‘a fake’, since it was so different in styling compared to what they envisioned a “new GTO” should be ) was a big factor in the failure.
Dealers trying to ( initially ) change over MSRP was another factor.
This may happen again, as all I have read suggests that initially the number of G8s available will be somewhat limited. I hope not, but if it does, it may cause a negative impact on the sales. If ( for example ) I cannot test drive a G8 GT equipped as I’d buy or order one ( if that becomes possible ) I will not buy one. Period.
And if my local Pontiac dealers choose to treat potential G8 buyers as many Chevy dealers treat potential Corvette buyers ( regarding a test drive ) this may well turn customer off. And if supply does catch up with demand, they may never return.
If someone is looking for a bargain in a RWD sedan that appears to nearly match a BMW 535 or 550 in acceleration at ** A LOT ** less money,
and if the Dealers are reasonable regarding test drives and actual transaction pricing,
and if ( as I have posted here before ) the reality of production units meets expectations in several other areas, then I predict that the G8 will sell out of the volume I understand is currently projected to be produced by Holden.
We shall see . . .
[[ I am somewhat encouraged by the below quote from Lutz, from quite some time ago regarding “lessons learned” with the GTO. ]]
Ready to test drive ( still )
= = =
G8 Lutz: 3 lessons from the GTO flop
February 19, 2007 - 12:01 am EST
CHICAGO - The 2008 Pontiac G8 is General Motors' second recent attempt to sell an Australian-assembled car in the United States.
The first, the 2004-06 Pontiac GTO, failed to reach sales expectations and was dropped. The coupe was based on the Holden Monaro.
During an interview this month at the Chicago Auto Show, GM Vice Chairman Bob Lutz said the automaker learned three lessons from the GTO:
1. The car's styling was not fresh. That body style had been on the market in Australia "for probably close to seven or eight years. So if you are going to bring in a car, it should be at the beginning of its design cycle, not at the end."
2. "We overpriced it."
3. The wrong dealers were targeted. Initial GTO distribution was based on historic Pontiac sales, which were heavily in the Midwest. But Midwest buyers did not want a rear-drive car. Instead, California should have been targeted at the beginning. "We will not make that mistake this time."
#441 of 1278 Re: another GTO ?? Re: Competition? [rayainsw]
Jan 14, 2008 (7:01 am)
Interesting discussion. I was one that watched with interest the GTO saga. Visited the dealer in Dec. 2003; they had one on the showroom floor with ROPES AROUND IT! Not allowed to touch it, much less sit in it. Um, it's a Pontiac, guys, not a Ferrari. Couple of months later, I visited again. This time I was allowed to actually sit in it. Not bad, other than my temple hit the roof when I got out. Still had a $5,000 "market adjustment" sticker. The only way you would be allowed to test drive was if you basically purchased the car first. Ridiculous. I'm 48 years old. And I went across the street to the BMW dealership and ordered a new 3-series. That I was allowed to test drive. Several times. I returned to the Pontiac dealership in September after seeing massive incentives being offered on the GTO. I asked how many they had sold since December. One. And now they had about a dozen collecting dust. I wound up purchasing for $8,000 below sticker (I had some GM MasterCard points that helped alot). Long story short: I hope they do the same thing with the G8; maybe I'll get one of these for fire-sale price, too.
#442 of 1278 Re: another GTO ?? Re: Competition? [rayainsw]
Jan 14, 2008 (7:04 am)
Don't get me wrong, I'm just playing devil's advocate here. I drive a Subaru, so I'm no snob and definitely not brand concious. I basically had a GTO ready to buy but then a friend sold me his lightly used LGT Wagon w/5speed so I went for that over the GTO cause it was only 18k out the door with 15k miles on it and was a bit more practical.
I think that targeting the Charger and Tarus and even the Maxima are great targets to go for as that's the clientel that will buy the G8. The BMW, Acura, MB, and Infinitiy buyers are different class of people and really aren't the Pontiac demographic.
#443 of 1278 Re: another GTO ?? Re: Competition? [rayainsw]
Jan 14, 2008 (7:10 am)
Ray, a lot of if's, don't you think?
Here is a fact that lends me to believe the G8 will turn off a lot of buyers...my local dealer is allocated one in March and the future they have no idea how many they will get. That tells me there will not be enough around (in the 50 states) to test drive one as you would order one.
#444 of 1278 BMW 3 \ G35 ?? Re: Competition? [mr215]
Jan 14, 2008 (7:32 am)
“Most people who would buy a 3 series wont consider this car. I do think some TL and Maxima owners will give it a look however. Its going to offer similar performance to the G35 but with a lower price and more space.”
I have seriously considered the 335. Still am, in fact. And I am just as seriously considering the G8 GT. For me, the size of the back seat is much less a concern than the fact that there is a back seat – and doors for access.
With 361 \ 380 HP \ TQ ( and even with a curb weight of 350 more pounds ) I expect that the G8 GT will be a bit quicker than the G35, at 306 & 268 HP \ TQ.
The most recent G35 Sedan test I have seen was in a recent R&T:
0 – 60 was 5.3.
Quarter mile in 13.8 102.9
These acceleration numbers ( seems fairly representative ) are helped by the somewhat aggressive gearing in the G35 – final drive = 3.69:1.
And RPM at 60 = 2550 with the five speed automatic.
[[ The G8 will likely turn closer to 1600 or 1650 RPM at 60.
For anyone who might care. As I do. ]]
And with the G8 V8’s Torque, I expect that it will ( perhaps just as important ) also ‘feel’ quicker than the G35, in typical street driving. Much more like an Infiniti M45 than a G35.
But time will tell . . .
Available for “closed course. SEMI-professional driver” duty . . .
#445 of 1278 Re: BMW 3 \ G35 ?? Re: Competition? [rayainsw]
Jan 14, 2008 (8:20 am)
Don't know what "size" person you are, but I'm 6-3, 190 lbs and barely fit in my 335i. I expect (based on specs) the G8 will be a more comfortable fit for me. Our local car show is in Mid-March; I'm hoping a G8 will be available to the public and not stashed off-limits behind ropes.
#446 of 1278 size Re: BMW 3 \ G35 ?? Re: Competition? [white6]
Jan 14, 2008 (8:46 am)
And ( um ) over 190....
Is your 335 a coupe or sedan?
#447 of 1278 GM's direction with the G8
Jan 14, 2008 (8:53 am)
Here will help clear some of the debates on who GM is planning to compete against with the G8:
#448 of 1278 Re: size Re: BMW 3 \ G35 ?? Re: Competition? [rayainsw]
Jan 14, 2008 (9:00 am)
Coupe. My wife calls it the "little bitty car."
#449 of 1278 ifs Re: another GTO ?? Re: Competition? [circlew]
Jan 14, 2008 (9:18 am)
“a lot of if's”
In my example of the Corvette & test drives, there are many dealers that treat the Corvette as anything but a Chevy.
Yet there is one less than an hour from where I live that allowed me 2 test drives. I expect that some Pontiac Dealers will attempt to take advantage of the limited initial supply \ allocation.
The ‘fact’ that your dealer has one in March and an unknown stream arriving beyond that does not mean that every Dealer has exactly the same situation. Nor does that fact mean that those Dealers with this situation will not allow test drives. They may not, but ( again ) no one knows, yet.
And in the case of the G8, I only need to test drive a GT \ V8 with automatic ( all initial build will be automatics ), Sport Package, Premium Package and a sunroof. These are all \ the only options \ packages available. And my guess is that if a Dealer has more than a couple, they will have one equipped like that.
If a specific Dealer does not allow me a comprehensive test drive, I will not buy – from THAT dealer.
I drove 200 miles ( round trip ) last time I bought a Pontiac – and that Dealer is where I will likely buy a G8, should I decide to purchase one.
I am not yet ready to call: Strike One.
I am in no particular hurry to order or purchase.
So, if there are initially few available, but the boats from Australia continue to arrive with additional inventory - and supply does catch up with demand, this will not particularly bother me. I will still be interested.
But, by my count: Strike 0.
All my other “ifs” remain as unknown as well.
Anticipating this car, but not really impatient . . .