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Sedans Pontiac G8 2008 Pontiac G8
1265 messages, Last post on Jul 21, 2009 at 10:14 AM
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Replying to: paisan (Dec 20, 2008 9:24 pm) The huge sucking sound off-shore has been growing louder over the last 30 years and even if we spend $200B, the ashes of F, GM and C will own no more than 15% market share combined at the end of the day unless we completely close off the borders! The cars that are produced just don't compete, period. Perhaps soon... This bailout is a convenience to Bankruptcy. Wait and see. Regards, OW
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Replying to: circlew (Dec 21, 2008 11:21 am) The Americans invented the minivan/SUV. It is Toyota & Nissan that copied our pickup trucks. In my 25 years of engineering, all I ever seen from Japan were copies. They never seem to come up with original ideas. When I attended ANSI meetings for disk drive development, Japan merely supplied people with cameras. Ford even had antilock brakes in their 69 Tbird. I drove all the imports prior to purchasing the G8. The vehicles from Europe were out of the price range and the cars from Japan (Honda, Toy, Niss) were front heavy under steering FWD boring to drive vehicles. Again, the eyes of all American's are on the UAW. If that problem is fixed and GM/Ford can spend their fair share on R&D. We will regain our market share. Just look at Honda's lineup. All front heavy junks. Even their Acura brand is still producing FWD and just started with AWD. At least Cadillac realized the big mistake they made copying Toy & Honda and changed the drive wheels back to RWD. It is very easy to say GM sucks, but I would rather you inform me about technological advances that the Japan group has that will make them prevail going forward. The American's have steadily improved on reliability and have almost caught up. The will eventually easily surpass Japan because they improve more than Japan each year. I would like to think it will be America that develops the battery that carries us the next 25 years. I do have a few questions: If you want to see the American car companies go down the tube so badly, where is it that you think we should be focusing in the future for jobs? Do you want us to focus on low tech items such as weaving baskets for the world? What is it that you do for a living Circlew? Do you feel you are an inferior thinker/worker when compared to your counter part of other countries? A car is a big ticket high tech item that every adult owns. High tech has advanced this country over others in the past. Certainly I would prefer not support other countries by sending them a huge check every time we purchase a vehicle. As an engineer, I would like to think Americans are every bit as intelligent and maybe a little more creative at this point in time. Don't you think we can produce a better vehicle if our manufacturing labor rates were equal?
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Replying to: mrpushrod (Dec 20, 2008 11:40 pm) You can blame the UAW, however, the big-3 agreed to those contracts. Again, I blame those who are/were running the businesses at the time they agreed to said contracts. Why did they agree? Greed. There was plenty of money to go around at the time, they didn't look to the future. Similar to your own and my own businesses. If we blow all the cash we are making profit on today, we won't have $ for the lean times or the times when we need to have cash. The big 3 didn't care because they were making a ton of cash, they were ALL living high on the hog and now it's time to pay. You must feel the anger I feel when one of them gets on TV and refuses to concede on anything. They think it is their god given right to collect 95% of their salary when they are out of work. If GM goes under, we will be supporting these bums. I agree, however, I don't care that they GM, Ford and Chrysler all go down. The basis of capitalism are not in bailouts, subsidies, and what not. Both the execs, UAW, and the Feds giving the $ make me sick! In my particular case the G8 was going to be my 3rd "fun" car and I will have just as much fun with my STi, I really really gave them a shot, test drove the car, and went to several dealers with very bad results. Unfortunately their dealer network customer experience killed the sale for me. I also didn't feel that $30k was a good price on the car in today's economic environment! -mike Subaru Guru and Track Instructor
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Replying to: mrpushrod (Dec 21, 2008 12:40 pm) I agree, however in a world economy, we can not compete in terms of the manufacturing and labor rates with other countries. Not unless the labor realizes that as an auto worker, or what not you are not entitled to own a caddy and a mcmansion. The problem with the country these days is that everyone feels they are entitled to have a Mc Masion a Caddilac and work 40hrs a week. Have a summer home and a boat. Unfortunately everyone wants to be a chief and no one wants to be an indian anymore. This is what is bringing down America, no one is humble anymore and no one wants to work hard to get ahead.  -mike Subaru Guru and Track Instructor |
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Replying to: paisan (Dec 21, 2008 12:53 pm) As a engineer and a business man, I can assure you that not being able to negotiate a deal on a new vehicle is actually a character flaw. I have always been able to buy the product I want and at a good deal. I would never steer away from one product or another just because of a salesman. When i don't get what I want I start bashing heads. You can always get a fair deal with the right techniques. I would have started bashing heads until I spoke to the owner of the dealership. In fact it was the owner of the dealership that resolved the issue I had with my first G8. How can you be giving advise important issues such as; How we should handle the auto industry, what is good for the country, etc when you steer away from a car because you are not capable negotiating a good deal? Come on here, who am I talking to??? I wish I had the opportunity to put egg on your face by going into the same dealer ships and teaching you the art of negotiation. |
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Replying to: mrpushrod (Dec 21, 2008 1:16 pm) However, when several dealers flat-out say "We won't go a penny under $30k" and have a completely lack luster attitude, there is no need to further negotiate with them, they let me walk out the door and as a result my $30k will go to someone else. Sometimes you vote with your $ rather than squeezing every penny out of someone, only to have them short change you on another end. I'm glad you are happy with your car and glad you are supporting the failing american auto industry. You must be very well off that you can afford to subsize a business that clearly does not want to gain more customers! -mike Subaru Guru and Track Instructor |
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Replying to: mrpushrod (Dec 21, 2008 12:40 pm) Well, we can produce inferior vehicles at higher labor rates, so I am hoping the inverse is possible. I don't want to see the B3 go down. It's been happening for years and I was still a customer until the 2003 Denali proved to me quality is just not there. When the products that we make are better than the world, we will create jobs, don't you agree? Until 2008 nothing GM was desireable. Now they wake up to a business model that's been failing with not enough time and effort to change. Like you said, cars/trucks are a big ticket item and you need to plan well in advance for meeting market demands. Even though I am fully against a bailout because it will cost more than a structured reorg, Let's see what the government can add to the mix to sell. Regards, OW |
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Replying to: mrpushrod (Dec 21, 2008 1:16 pm) When I saw the MAP price the dealers added to the G8, it proves even a great car's sales potential can be ruined by the greed prevalent in the supply chain. If they want return customers, try fairness and watch buyers flock to good product. All I needed to do to get my new '08 CR-V was to negotiate like a gentleman over the internet with 5 dealers and then giving the winning bidder the business. That's how I work. No "head bashing" needed. Regards, OW
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Replying to: circlew (Dec 21, 2008 1:34 pm) I will try asking this again, what is it that you do for work??? Don't you ever deal with people?
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Replying to: mrpushrod (Dec 21, 2008 4:47 pm) For you, you enjoy fighting with a salesperson. I enjoy it to a certain extent, however when they are not willing to negotiate, and are quite rude, it shows me how the company which I am about to "invest" in conducts buisness. Have fun when it comes time to "fight" with the service writers on any repairs (and all mechanical products will need repairs eventually). -mike Subaru Guru and Track Instructor |
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