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Classic Cars Restoration Advice
220 messages, Last post on May 31, 2009 at 5:49 PM
You are in the Classic Cars Forum. Your Host is mr_shiftright
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Replying to: isellhondas (Aug 06, 2007 6:11 am) And really, manual steering on a 60s muscle car is no fun whatsoever, and tons of engine heat wafting throught the firewall on a summer's day isn't either.
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Replying to: Mr_Shiftright (Aug 06, 2007 6:22 am) On the way back I have to go down this long steep hill. I have been on the hill with that truck many times but never when it was 100 degrees out and never after I had already driving for 45 minutes. At the bottom of the hill is a stop sign. As I come down the hill I keep it in third for some engine braking to help out the little un-powered drum brakes. It would probably be better to down shift to second but that is a PITA because of the non-syncrho second gear. I can up shift from first to second easily enough but I never really mastered down shifting into second. Every other time I have been down the hill that worked fine but this time was different. As I get to the steepest part of hill I push the brakes a little harder to slow down and I get nothing. I push the pedal to the floor and can just barely keep from accelerating. All the ambient heat and the previous 45 minutes of driving must have overheated the brakes. I manage to down shift into second with only a little bit of gear grinding. That slows me down a good bit but I am still going to fast to stop for the sign. I am pumping the brakes trying to get some life back into them and there are still cars in the intersection. I lay on the horn a few times but they are clueless. Luckily the hill flattens out enough right before the stop sign that I can slow down enough to stop about two car lengths past the line. My whole body is drenched in sweat and its not just from the 100 plus degree heat. I have a death grip on the wheel and I am just sitting there letting my heart rate come down some. At that point I would really have liked some disc brakes. |
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Replying to: Mr_Shiftright (Aug 06, 2007 6:22 am)
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Replying to: isellhondas (Aug 06, 2007 7:54 am) Which is why one of the first things I do when I encounter one of these situations where I have to stop quickly (no matter the age of the car I'm driving) is to check my rearview mirror to make certain someone isn't about to plow into me. One week into driving my new car I came to one of those sudden stops on the Interstate on my way to work, and as I'm screeching to a halt (without hitting anyone, thanks to my 4-wheel discs w/ABS) I check my mirror and I see a guy coming at me who has his head turned looking at something in the passenger seat...and driving something like a '78 Cutlass. I pumped my brakes a couple times to flash my brake lights just in case and braced for the impact, heard the tires squeal and then watched as the guy slid past me in the emergency lane and stopped about a car length in front of me. When every car on the street had drum brakes those cars were relatively safe, because everyone was working with similar reaction times/distances. But driving an older car today on the same playing field with much more advanced cars (and in many cases much less advanced drivers!) puts you at an unfair advantage. If a car is too valuable to make these mods to, then realistically it should only be driven on rare occasions (or trailered). If it's a daily driver, it needs to be equipped to survive the daily drive. Given a choice I'd rather see old cars on the street with modern drivetrains/brake/safety systems versus only seeing them in a museum somewhere.
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Replying to: isellhondas (Aug 05, 2007 7:40 pm) If I had to drive this thing on a daily basis, I might consider it. But actually, when I did drive it more often, I never really had any complaints about how its "Total Contact" braking system performed. Now keeping it adjusted, working on it, etc, is way annoying because it's overly complicated. Two wheel cylinders up front per wheel, plus needing a special puller to get the back drums off do not exactly bring a smile to my face. I'll probably just end up having its brake system put back to original spec. Probably a lot cheaper and much less annoying in the long run than digging up Volare copcar rotors, front calipers off God-knows what else, '79-85 Eldorado rear disc setups, an E-body rear-end, and all sorts of other odds and ends. As for disc brakes versus drum, what I'm about to say will probably make Walter P. Chrysler roll over in his grave, as he always put a strong emphasis on good brakes...but I swear I can lock up the all-disc setup on my 2000 Intrepid much more easily than I could the 10" non-power drums on my '68 Dart. I think I read somewhere though, that braking ability was never a strong suit of the Mopar LH platform. |
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Replying to: Mr_Shiftright (Aug 06, 2007 6:22 am) An example, my 70 Chevy 3/4 ton 4x4 is on a 72 frame. The reason, because the 70 had drum brakes. The 72 had power steering and power disk brakes. While that is a minor example, in the late 70s, it wasn't uncommon for us to find vehicles like 48s and put them on certain Chevy frames, like Impala frames, for the power steering, power brakes and that. Recently, there has been an increase in replica bodies going on tubed frames or folks finding body parts and assembling them on different frames. While these vehicles end up not being anywhere near stock, they are still very nice vehicles. I'm not a purist when it comes to the classics, I grew up as a hot rodder. So I can see people's point when they modify a vehicle. I can also see the purist's point. It is a shame to chop up a beautiful 57. But here's the flip side. Usually vehicles I hot rodded (ok, so they were a bit chopped), most were to a point where it would have been extremely costly to restore to stock. Turning them into hot rods was far easier and less costly to do. So it was the natural thing to do. |
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Replying to: andre1969 (Aug 06, 2007 9:58 am)
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Replying to: lemko (Aug 06, 2007 11:26 am) As for Total Contact braking, I just tried a quick Google search, and couldn't find any online diagrams. I have a '57 DeSoto service manual packed away somewhere though, and I guess I could scan it in for you. Basically, it had an upper cylinder that would press one of the shoes against the drum. I forget if it was the forward shoe or the rear shoe though. The lower cylinder would press the other shoe. It provided more even braking, because instead of applying the bulk of the force at two spots towards the top of the drum, it would apply it more evenly, as the two pressure points would be directly opposite each other on the drum. The 1957 DeSoto and Chrysler also used beefy 12" drums, which no doubt helped with stopping power. I think Dodge used 11" drums, and I'm not sure what Plymouth used. Just for comparison, something like a 1973 Grand Am or GTO, which probably weighed more than a '57 DeSoto and, with the 455 at least, was probably more powerful, only came standard with 9.5" drums all around. Basically, the same thing the Corvair used to use, but in a package that was probably about 1200-1500 pounds heavier!  The disk brake option, IIRC, came with 11" drums in back, so hopefully the majority of them were equipped that way!
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Replying to: andre1969 (Aug 06, 2007 11:54 am) Speaking just for myself, someone sheltering a $10,000 very common "classic" car and pleading that it's too valuable to alter in any way....well, that's really stretching it and strikes me, at any rate, as nothing more than an ego trip and making a big ado about nothing. Brakes, safety equipment and good suspension are no different to me than life preservers, modern running lights and improved engine in an old yacht or runabout. |
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Replying to: nosirrahg (Aug 06, 2007 9:39 am) I just think the dangers of driving a stock, well maintained older car with drum brakes and stock suspension is very much overblown. Anything CAN happen I suppose but to me, I like my cars as they were when they were built. But, I see the other side too.
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