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Sedans Lexus ES Lexus ES Engine Questions
53 messages, Last post on Jun 07, 2009 at 10:55 AM
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Replying to: shello (Jun 07, 2007 11:04 am) This gives a quantitative measurement of internal engine wear, and will tell you if its the rings, the valve guides, the valve stem seals, or just excessive crankcase pressure. Without this test, everyone's just guessing. If the test has been done, they should be able to show you actual results on a print-out.
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Replying to: Mr_Shiftright (Jun 07, 2007 11:24 am) Thanks, again!
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Replying to: shello (Jun 08, 2007 6:03 pm) But any good import shop knows how to do this.
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Replying to: Mr_Shiftright (Jun 08, 2007 8:03 pm) I called the dealership today and they have yet to return the call. Say that they did use this test and it does in fact reveal the rings need to be replaced. I know prices vary from shop to shop, but what is a reasonable price for this kind of repair? I need to decide whether to invest further in the vehicle or to trade it in. Shello
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Replying to: shello (Jun 09, 2007 3:46 pm) But since they haven't really tested it they don't know yet, or they didn't tell you properly what they found. Perhaps you have worn valve guides or valve stem seals, which would give the exact same symptoms but only require removal of the cylinder heads---perhaps a $1,500 repair.
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Replying to: Mr_Shiftright (Jun 09, 2007 4:07 pm) Do you think the rings or seals or guides could have been caused from not having enough oil? There was a lot of steam and heat built up in the engine when I took off the oil resevoir cap and noticed the singed oil on the underside of the cap. I'm assuming that the cost of replacing the rings and/or the other ancillary things you mentioned would cost more than the $1,500 for guides or stem seals? Much more? Shello
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Replying to: shello (Jun 09, 2007 9:00 pm) The wear on valve guides could be construed as within "normal" wear at 87K....quite premature but not unheard of...maybe there should have been more frequent oil changes. I have no idea of the car's previous service records. I think if they bust open the entire engine, that is "go into the lower end" rather than just stay on the "upper end" (cylinder heads", then you will surely exceed $1,500 unless it's some kind of down and dirty patch job. Most of the cost is a) the labor to disassemble and assemble the engine and b) the machining costs. The actual parts are not very expensive---rings, gaskets, hoses, clamps, belts, etc. Offhand, I'd say your car is an excellent candidate for a used engine, should the cylinder leakdown test show excessive ring wear. Remember, you cannot successfully install a new, perfectly round ring on a worn piston running in an oblong cylinder bore. It won't last but a few thousand miles before burning oil again. Everything must be "trued up" and made factory tight again.
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Replying to: Mr_Shiftright (Jun 10, 2007 8:10 am)  I finally heard back from the Lexus Service Manager. He stated that they didn't arrive at the ring failure determination from performing a cylinder leakdown test. Instead, they determined that it had to be the failure of the rings because oil was 'fouling out' the spark plugs, even the newly installed ones, and the only way that oil could get to the spark plugs was if the rings had failed. He said the rings were failing on multiple cylinders. Like you, he also told me that is was highly unlikely on a "Lexus engine" that the trouble was being caused by a valve problem. He went on to articulate what is involved in rebuilding the engine and said that with the labor involved (40-50 hours), it would exceed the cost of even a factory new engine from Lexus ($7,000). So, now I guess my only option if I'm going to keep the vehicle is getting a used engine. My only experience with such an endeavor is when I had a new transmission put into a Hyundai Excel. I shopped around at auto salvage yards and found a mechanic to install it. I then promptly drove it from his shop to an auto dealer and traded it in. Should I just start calling auto salvage shops and shop around for engines? Are there internet sites where I can shop for the engines? I know the price will vary depending on the mileage, but can you give me a ballpark figure of what is a good price given a certain mileage range? Also, what should be a reasonable labor charge for removing the old and installing the new engine? I remember when I had the transmission done, the warranty for the transmission was only 90 days and the mechanics work was only guaranteed for 30. Would the warranty be much the same on engines? I know I'm probably asking a lot of you, but any help you can provide will help me make a decision. Thanks for all of your help and patience. Shello
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Replying to: shello (Jun 12, 2007 10:05 am) I'm sorry, but they are wrong about that. Bad valve guides or valve stem seals could certainly foul spark plugs, and in fact could do so more easily than bad rings. Why? Because with bad valve stem seals or guides, the oil can drop into the combustion chamber with the engine shut off, putting a lot more oil onto the cold plugs than bad rings can do on warm plugs. I'd still say that without a cylinder leakdown test, Lexus is just walking around with a blindfold throwing darts at your checkbook. One step at a time. First, "nail" the problem. Automobiles are science, they are not sessions with a psychic.
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Replying to: Mr_Shiftright (Jun 12, 2007 10:13 am) In the meantime, I talked to a company that specializes in engine auto parts. Their rep told me that the engine on the Camry and Avalon is the exact same engine as the Lexus ES 300 and can be used interchangably. Is that correct? He told me he could get me a Certified Used Camry engine for $1,650 (no tax)delivered to a commercial address. He said that engine has 41K miles on it. He had a certified Rebuilt Lexus engine he could get me for $3,500. He also had a certified Lexus engine remanufactured by Jasper, for $2,800. According to them, each engine is thoroughly inspected, leak-down and run-tested. Their warranty covers the ‘long block’(cylinder block, cylinder heads, valves, crankshaft, connecting rods, pistons, bearings, rocker arms, camshafts and all of the internal moving parts). Can the Lexus, Camry and Avalon engines be used interchangably? Since I have a baseline for the engine prices, what is a ballpark figure for labor for installing the engine? I will call the Lexus dealer back and see if I can't get a leakdown test, free of charge, since they misdiagnosed the problem the first time (charging me $400 for new wires) and just guessed the second time I brought it in. I think I'm getting close to being able to navigate these waters. Shello
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