Last post on Jan 28, 2008 at 9:04 PM
You are in the Toyota RAV4
What is this discussion about?
Toyota Highlander, Subaru Outback, Toyota RAV4, Sedan, Wagon
Dec 28, 2007 (8:31 am)
Edmunds completed its long term test of a RAV4. Interesting remarks about the V6 engine . It's first time I have heard Emunds saying a vehicle had too __much__ horsepower, but apparently the V6 RAV4 had nasty torque steer.
By comparison, I have never seen/felt Torque steer on any '08 Subaru outback I have driven, even when two wheels were in gravel and other two on pavement. m On other hand, the Subies don't respond well to the throttle (they have good ultimate power, but you have to wait to get it).
#97 of 115 Re: edmunds wrapup [kurtamaxxxguy]
Dec 28, 2007 (9:00 am)
That's the difference between a part-time AWD system and a full-time one, basically.
All you have to do is manage the throttle carefully. My Sienna has torque steer if you aren't careful, so generally I wait until the it's aimed straight before really punching it.
#98 of 115 Re: edmunds wrapup [ateixeira]
Dec 28, 2007 (11:22 am)
Note that Edmunds' comments refer to the FWD model. The AWD RAV4 is less prone to torque steer - I only notice it when nailing the pedal at speed, when it's running in mostly FWD mode. In daily driving it's a non-issue.
Dec 29, 2007 (12:28 am)
this '07 had 48 miles on it, no clunks in the driveline, and less of (but still some) hesitations when accelerating (about a second or so). The salesperson riding shotgun explains the AWD weight was responsible for some of the lag. There was no huge turbo surge. Amazing how two XT's could be so different.
It felt very substantial, with absolutely no torque steer no matter what I or salesrep did. Although the roads were wet, I noted no brake pulsing or loss of traction on any of the wheels.
How do the seats differ from H6 to XT? Narrower? Larger bolsters? Subaru only says the XT has "performance" seats.
Dec 30, 2007 (11:00 am)
...as it had telescoping steering.
#101 of 115 Re: Another XT drive [kurtamaxxxguy]
Dec 31, 2007 (4:34 pm)
You should buy that exact car. Seriously.
Some cars just seem to be blueprinted, i.e. built perfectly to specs.
#102 of 115 The RAV4 leaves Subie in its dust
Jan 01, 2008 (6:44 pm)
Drove a RAV4 Limited V6 AWD today. Edmunds was right about this one - the engine almost seems too powerful for the chassis (some torque steer, for sure) and there was some hesitation from the 5 speed auto (about a second or so ..vs.. less from my existing Maxx).
It easily out-responded all the Outbacks I have driven - almost felt like it was going to run away with itself at times. The fact that RAV4's V6 engine uses regular gas is another plus. A minus is the RAV4's throttle's hair-triggerish, like the Outback in sportsharp, but all the time.
You sit higher in the RAV4, and the leather seats are perforated like the LL.BEAN (the XT has solid leather seats). The seats seem a bit firmer. The RAV4 interior trim's not quite as nice as Outback, but ok. There's more interior room for passengers, with a little less for cargo unless seats are folded down. The rear cargo cover was almost a copy of that used in the Subaru. Most glaring cheapness in RAV4 was mouse-fur headliner.
I couldn't test the AWD (dry weather for a change, but was impressed the RAV4 could be locked on demand, and had various features to help with hills. It's not quite as sophisicated as Subarus, but for slow speeds such as driving on really bad roads I suspect there won't be much noticeable difference.
A Frankenstein project might be an Outback with a toyota V6 engine...
#103 of 115 toyota .vs. subaru cust support
Jan 02, 2008 (10:02 am)
...also, I am not sure if Toyota or Subaru is better at helping resolve customer problems.
Years ago, when I had to resort to legal action to solve a lemon problem, I asked the lawyer (a reputable one) which car manufacturers were the easiest or most difficult to deal with. He responded that Honda and Mercedes were by far the most difficult, with Toyota being somewhere in the middle. Unfortunately, I had not asked him about Subaru.
#104 of 115 Re: The RAV4 leaves Subie in its dust [kurtamaxxxguy]
Jan 02, 2008 (11:30 am)
Hmm, I have a 3.5l Sienna, and a Legacy. I could do the engine swap myself ...
Better yet, I'll put the V6 in my Miata.
Subaru needs to ditch the 3.0l H6 and replace it with the 3.6l H6. I've only sampled that engine in the Tribeca, but it's a match for Toyota's mighty 2GR V6. The 3.0l is not.
Now you have to drive a Forester when that comes out, should only be another 8 weeks or so.
I'm not sure about who is easier to deal with when it comes to Lemons, but an Edmunds member that is a supplier to SIA surprised me when he said that Subaru's inspections are more stringent than Toyota's (at the same plant).
Not sure if that's why Toyota dropped to 3rd in reliability rankings, but it wasn't enough to sway me away from a Sienna. The engine alone is worth the $25 grand.
Jan 02, 2008 (12:39 pm)
Thanks for info, ateixeria.
Yes, I am concerned Toyota has slipped in reliability. Toyota talks too much of cost cutting. It shows (some of the RAV4 parts are downright cheap), and that has hurt them.
But I certainly agree with you wrt Subaru H6's being outclassed by the Toyota 2GR V6.
Still, I doubt Subaru will use their 3.6 H6 in anything but the Tribeca for the next two years.
Wrt forester, Subaru has to improve the seats, the transmission and (lower torque) the engine. The current seats got a bad rap from CU, and they've proved pretty accurate for my older frame.
Also, very likely now I will relocate to a level area in Portland (out of the mountains), making AWD much less important for short term. Long term, it remains desirable.