Last post on Apr 29, 2013 at 2:31 PM
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Toyota Avalon, Engine, Sedan
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#345 of 364 Rubber V Metal:Camry/Avalon going same route as Delta88 and Cutlass Supreme
Nov 07, 2009 (5:11 am)
Fast forward ten years: it appears that in the year 2020 it will be as embarrasing to drive a Camry or Avalon as it is to drive a 2010 Buick today. Looks like only Ford is getting it right since their repair record is exceeding Honda & Toyota (Honda Accord's $250 rear brake pad replacemnt every 15,000 miles problem is the number one issue on carcomplaints.com) and Ford is actually turning a billion dollar profit.
It is almost as if Toyota is following the Oldsmobile road map towards self destruction. Toyota's treatment of this rubber versus metal oil line issue is abysmal. It is as if it wasn't bad enough that they initially coupled the space age fuel efficient 2GR-FE V6 jetlike engine to a bad transmission in the 07 model year Camry -causing Consumer Reports to withdraw it from the "recommended" list - that they went on a suicide mission to create a real scandal with the rubber oil line.
The number of affected vehicles is over 1.5 to 2 million. Toyota just did a recall which they call a "Limited Service Bulletin" that applies only to 05 and 06 Avalons.and 06 Rav4's. It replaces one rubber hose with another. It states in pertinent part:
"To: All Toyota Dealer Principals, Service Managers, Parts Managers
Subject: Limited Service Campaign (LSC) – 90K
2005 – 2006 Avalon and 2006 RAV4 Vehicles Equipped with the V6 (2GR-FE) Engine - VVT-I Oil Hose Replacement
Toyota will initiate a Limited Service Campaign to replace the VVT-i oil hose in certain 2005 – 2006 model year Avalon and 2006 model year RAV4 vehicles with a 2GR-FE engine.
This Limited Service Campaign will be available at no charge to the vehicle owners until March 31, 2013. All terms of the affected vehicle’s Toyota Basic Warranty will remain intact regardless of whether or not the customer takes advantage of the Limited Service Campaign.
There are approximately 147,000 Avalon (2005 through 2006 model year), and 26,000 RAV4 (2006 model year) involved in the U.S.
Since this applies all to NorthAmerican built 2GR-FE engines built pre-April 2008 and some Japan built prior to 2007, it's pretty easy to get past the million vehicle marker.
Note: Not a single ES350 on the Internet has oil line failure because they are all built in Japan and have the metal pipe.
I was going to wait a few months, but so I can quit obsessing about this, I am taking my 09 LE V6 in to Molle Toyota and pay for the $275 fix. Olathe Toyota told me it would void the warranty but Molle says "we always use the metal pipe." It takes two hours of labor because, unlike the Avalon, they have to remove the power steering pump to do the fix.
My car is 19 months old. Pop the trunk and it still has new car smell and contains the following:
1) First aid kit
2) Premium Jumper Cables
3) a twelve pack.
No - the 12pak is not beer. It's a twelve bottle case of Pennzoil 5w30 oil in case the oil line ruptures.
Sorry for the rant. I didn't mind changing out mismatched Bridgestone 215/60/16 tires and wheels at 8500 miles for 17" 215/55/17 Avalon LTD wheels and Michelin tires at a cost of $1300 so I shouldn't mind doing this $275 fix.
#346 of 364 Re: Rubber V Metal:Camry/Avalon going same route as Delta88 and Cutlass Supreme [paul3637]
Nov 07, 2009 (7:29 am)
I think it is absolutely appalling that we have to deal with Toyota dealers who make statements like "installing the metal VVTi line will void the warranty", and from a previous post ,"the metal line was made for Lexus, it's a more stable engine."
As Paul3637 posts, Toyota is still dancing around a failure mode that could affect over a million 2GR-FE engines. Replacing one rubber hose with another is just a cheaper way out, and probably moves the next failure out 50000 miles or so, well past any warranty period.
#347 of 364 Did anyone mention FLOORMATS, Fatality, and Oil line in the same sentence?
Nov 07, 2009 (7:54 am)
ToneDeaf-Out of touch-oblivious-incompetent-downright corrupt.
No, we are not talking about congress or wall street exectives paying billion dollar bonus - It's Toytota management at work. I have seen several posts that predict fatalities will eventually occur over the oil line issue when engine seizes and driver loses control or gets stranded in the mountains out of cell phone range - and I agree.
It took the breaking news headline about the 4 fatalities in the now famous ES350 crash San Diego before the 3.4 million Toyota floormat recall scandal broke.
I accidentally ran into this post when I looked up ES350 car complaints to confirm what the Lexus dealer told me: No ES350 oil line leaks ever because the Japan built Lexus always used the metal pipe..
Look at this on the subject of floormats where a guy made a big deal about getting his $500 deductible back ........... and Toyota ignored him.
http://www.carcomplaints.com/Lexus/ES350/2007/accessories-interior/throttle_gets- - _stuck_under_floor_mat.shtml
ES350 ES 3.2L V6
While my wife was backing out of our garage, the throttle got stuck under the floor mat. The car traveled across the street at full throttle and end up on a 5 foot snow bank. Other than a sore back and neck the next morning, she had no other injuries.
She did not require medical help. She was extremely lucky that no other vehicle was coming by at the time nor was anyone walking by. Only the snow bank prevented her from hitting a garage that is directly across the street.
I had received a recall notice from Lexus in the fall of 2007 addressing a floor mat to throttle problem. In discussing this with my Lexus dealer, I was told the recall did not apply to my vehicle because I did not have all weather floor mats. I did not give it another though until my wife had this accident.
After the accident I stopped at the Lexus dealer to show them how easy it was for the throttle to get stuck under the floor mat.I had removed the floor mat and put it in the trunk. The Service Manager immediately noticed that the mat I had in hand should have been on the passenger side and not on the drivers side. This information stunned me because I had never removed the floor mats. This left two possibilities; either the car was delivered new to me that way or while in Myrtle Beach I had the car cleaned at a car wash and they switched the mats. In either case it doesn't matter.
This accident should not have happened. Floor mats should not be interchangeable. I showed the Sheriff that investigated the accident as well as the tow truck driver and the insurance adjuster how easy it was for the throttle and none of them picked up on the fact that the mats had been reversed.
The Lexus Owners Manual only talks about the retainer clips being properly attached and they were as indicated in the
sheriff's report. The Owners Manual does not mention the potential danger of the accelerator becoming stuck if the floor mat are inadvertently installed on the wrong side. THE FLOOR MATS SHOULD BE DESIGNED SO IT IS NOT POSSIBLE TO ATTACH THE FLOOR CLIPS TO THE MATS IF THEY ARE NOT INSTALLED ON THE RIGHT SIDE.
I have written to Lexus in Torrance, California twice and included the Sheriffs report, Insurance Adjusters report and the repair cost from the body shop in an attempt to recover my $500 deductible. My insurance payed the remaining repair cost. But Lexus has not acknowledged ether of my registered letters.
This may be my last Lexus if I don't get satisfaction or at least an acknowledgment of the problem from them.
#348 of 364 Re: Avalons Using All-Metal VVTi Lines for How Long? [mylasttoyota1]
Nov 13, 2009 (6:18 am)
Here's an update on what I did...I replaced the VVTi line with the standard part, not the all- metal part because the dealer said the all metal part would not be warranted on the Avalon. Why doesn't the dealer recall it? - because 75% of customers buy the extended warranty through 100K so they are covered until then and the dealer is willing to roll the dice on having to replace the engine. Anyone looking for a great looking, silver 2006 Avalon XLS with a new VTTi line covered through 100K? No dings, dents or scratches. BTW, also fixed on this Avalon were: Steering Column Noise TSB#ST002-06 and ECM Calibration Enhancement to Shifting Performance & Smoothness TSB#EG029-07. Ex.cond. except subject to losing all oil at unpredictable intervals. Make offer:)
#349 of 364 Re: Avalons Using All-Metal VVTi Lines for How Long? [mylasttoyota1]
Nov 13, 2009 (6:46 am)
Mylast, are you saying that your dealer said the metal line would void the warranty, or just that he would not install it for free under warranty?
Most dealers have taken the position that they will not replace the VVTi line with all metal unless the customer pays for it,( "customer upgrade"). The Avalon warranty stays intact.
If your dealer is saying that the metal line voids the warranty, I would find a new dealer. That establishment is being less than honest.
#350 of 364 All-Metal VVTi [popsavalon]- Toyota V6 Oil Line Scandal
Nov 13, 2009 (7:30 am)
popsavalon is correct. The Toyota V6 Oil Line Scandal is discussed in the website ToyotaV6OilLineScandal at the following link:
The metal line was originally a Lexus part and can safely be used without voiding the warranty.
#351 of 364 Re: All-Metal VVTi [popsavalon]- Toyota V6 Oil Line Scandal [paul3637]
Nov 13, 2009 (12:11 pm)
Paul3637, thanks for the link information. I think folks that are aware of this problem should work really hard to see that ALL Toyota V6 owners know about the site.
It is really hard to understand all the horror stories being posted about this problem. It seems that almost no one is clean, from dealers all the way to Toyota Corporate.
Hopefully this problem will continue to gain exposure, and Toyota will be forced, maybe by a class action lawsuit, to acknowledge and fix the problem permanently for their customers.
#353 of 364 Important Information for all 2005-2008 Avalon Owners
Nov 16, 2009 (8:10 am)
The new web site :http://sites.google.com/site/toyotav6oillinescandal/ should be visited by all 2005-2008 Avalon owners. It has most of the pertinent information related to the major VVTi oil line failures that are being experienced by owners of Toyota V6 2GR-FE engines.
Worst case oil line failure can be sudden and catastrophic, resulting in loss of engine oil and almost certain engine damage if vehicle owners attempt further vehicle operation.
The site also addresses failure responses by dealers and Toyota USA, which have been less that stellar.
#354 of 364 Fixing Toyota Problems
Jan 31, 2010 (8:01 am)
Just in case everyone has forgotten, there are still roughly 1.5 million 2GR-FE V-6 engines out there with VVTi oil lines that can rupture with no warning and dump all the engine oil on the ground, or highway. Toyota USA has never officially acknowledged this problem and dealers have been wildly inconsistant in dealing with it.
There is a proven fix for this problem, I'm not so sure we are there yet on the "unintended acceleration" issue..