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Hybrid Vehicles Toyota Highlander Hybrid Toyota Highlander Hybrid Driving Tips & Tricks
428 messages, Last post on Oct 16, 2009 at 6:44 PM
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I am planning on getting a HH for a company vehicle. While I realize this is not a rugged 4wd like the 4 Runner I do plan to take it on dirt and gravel roads as part of my operational duties. It may at times even be on grass / fields. I recently discovered while trying to pull my Camry Hybrid off of the driveway onto slick grass (and a slope) that the traction control system has no override and simply shuts the car down. My Camry would go no where, even with the gas floored. I understand the system and have read about the need to not allow the MG2 to overspeed due to spinning the wheels, so my real concern is: Have any of you used the HH in slick sloped conditions successfully? Could you consider this for an operational work vehicle or should I go with a 4Runner. If I start up a slope, even a dry one and the traction goes, will the HH simply shut down?
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Replying to: wvgasguy (Jan 08, 2007 7:14 am) Can you guesstimate the slope? It is likely the Camry tires are not designed to bite down and also the Camry is too light? Our ranch has grassy steep slopes at 45-deg or worse, I have never taken our HH onto these slopes. I do not believe it can handle it. Our 4x4 Chevy trucks can handle up to about 30 but that is about it. Any steeper, everything just spins. We have driven our HH on grassy (3-5 inches tall grass) wet slope with an angle of about 10 degrees or there about, possibly 20 now that I think about it a bit. Not more than 20. It is able to handle it. In the above grassy areas, we have expansive soil that turns sticky and slick in the rain. If not for the grass, the tires will really "bulk up" into giant mud balls and we will most likely get stuck. With the grass, as long as we are careful and the tires remain somewhat clear, we can drive on the surface without problems. On dry loose gravel (smallish 1" to 3") roads, even up and down slopes of about 45-degrees, there is no problem. We are also able to drive up these roads after a rainstorm or some melting snow. There will be patches of mud but we can negotiate past them or put no more than 1 tire in them at a time. We can really feel the traction control doing its work. We have not taken on a long continuous all-muddy road. I won't try it in the HH. Not even with chains. You may laugh  but we always bring along chains, a large bucket full of baserock, some pieces of wood and shovels. We have not had to rely on them yet. On paved but rain-slick surface due to thick rotting leaves and thick pine needles, we can feel the traction control working but it is still able to handle it. Steepest we have is 30-degrees. Any steeper, I am not sure what will happen, even on paved surface. We have driven on snow covered paved surface with a slope of about 30 degrees. It is slushy wet snow and the car was able to climb to the car port. This is a rental ski cabin and not our place. The next morning, we had about 4 to 6 inches of fresh semi-powder on top and we were able to exit the place via its uncleared driveway to reach plowed surface and head to the slope OK. The car felt solid and in control the whole time. We have also changed our HH tires from the stock Goodyear Integrity to Goodyear SA Fortera. The Integrity will most likely have a hard time taking on unpaved surfaces. We lost one Integrity to a side-wall cut driving on our gravel ranch road so we swap them for something tougher. The Fortera has held up well so far. I wish there is a Wrangler type that fits the HH. I am still not 100% confident in the HH's ability to handle all unexpected dirt-road and xtra-mild off-road condition. We are very conservative when using it to check our place. If there is any doubt, we by pass and come back later with our true 4x4. It is able to handle close to 80% of our place as long as we use good common sense and take our time. It is also really nice to crawl along on electric with no fumes and no gas being burned. If you have experience with the 4Runner, my suggestion will be the same. If you doubt the HH's ability in a particular situation, come back later with the 4x4. NO fun getting stuck on a slope.
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Replying to: cdptrap (Jan 08, 2007 12:11 pm) I now worry about the Camry in normal snow conditions as I don't change over to snow tires in the winter. I will be extreemly careful about pulling out in front of cars knowing that if it's slick my car won't be moving. I just could imaging getting a HH and the first time I'm off road on some slick grass that it would just sit there. Surely 4wd, 4000+ pounds and a better tire would give it some traction.
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Replying to: wvgasguy (Jan 08, 2007 12:28 pm) I have a 4WD HH, so I was talking from that angle. I have NO CLUE what happens with a FWD-only HH even with Traction Control. At 4000+ lbs, 4WD and a good set of tires, our HH has done a lot. It actually has replaced about 80% of the work our Chevy used to do at our place. Why use the 4x4 when a 4WD will do and at lower gas consumption? Crawling along in a Chevy V8 on our ranch roads at today's gas price will burn a hole right through our pockets straight through to China ! One rule of thumb we use here is whenever we drive the HH and see an area that makes us want to lock the axle and shift to 4Lo, we avoid that area. Other than that, the HH has done well. In the 4WD HH, on an uphill, the traction control kicks in with a sudden but control "powered" feeling. We would feel a tire slip, normally either with a splash of mud and junk or a groan, the steering then feels strong and tight and the car continues to track straight at where we point. After that, the steering lightens up and we are back to normal driving. Downhill, it gets more exciting . Tires will hit something slippery, they will groan or begin to spin a bit, steering will tighten solid with good feel of control, car continues to track where we steer BUT it seems to slow down automatically. After it gets by, things go back to normal. All these were at low speed, no faster than 30-mph. We have not had any situation yet where it refused to move. Good luck in your research.
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Replying to: cdptrap (Jan 08, 2007 12:42 pm)
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Replying to: wvgasguy (Jan 08, 2007 2:08 pm)
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Replying to: jfeeliy (Jan 08, 2007 3:45 pm) I do live on a steep hill and many times I've had to "spin" my way to the top. I'm guessing I won't even try that with the TCH. Hopefully the HH won't need to spin to find traction. It is a weird feeling though when you're on a slope and the gas is floored and nothing is happening. I guess you may eventually slide backwards until the tires grip and then move forward again.
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Replying to: wvgasguy (Jan 09, 2007 6:11 am) The 2004 Prius had the problem of the TC causing the car to shut down in slippery conditions, but I was not aware that the Camry Hybrid had that issue. I think that the Prius got an update to allow the TC to be shut down. If you are using the vehicle for business, get a regular 4X4 SUV. The expenses are deductible anyway, and the vehicle will always function off road.
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Replying to: stevedebi (Jan 09, 2007 12:15 pm) It is important to clarify this statement. It all depends on the definition of "Off-road". It could mean a simple unpaved gravel road or the Rubicon. The HH is not meant for the Rubicon, but it can certainly handle a gravel road or a patch of dirt. There are backcountry dirt trails in Death Valley that cars and vans can handle and then some that require higher clearance vehicles but not 4x4 and then some that require a true 4x4. The HH can handle everything that cars and vans can handle. The HH has enough clearance to handle the other non-4x4 dirt tracks. When the condition requires locking the axles and 4Lo, then the HH is way out of its league. As a specific example, if you have been to Johnson's canyon in Death Valley, you will know of the nasty wash-board that leads to a "wash" via which one can approach the canyon mouth. I have driven a Ford Escort to the mouth of the wash and then backpacked on foot to the mouth of the canyon. Only a true 4x4 can make it through the wash to the mouth of the canyon. If the Escort can handle the wash-board to at least the wash, the HH can. That is about as close to off-road most SUVers will get. Another example is that if you are in CA SF Bay Area and you want to drive the Hollister Hills 4x4 course, then the HH is the wrong car. When we drive our HH onto trails and dirt tracks, we *never* assume it is a 4x4. Even the 4WD capabilities is limited. We just assume the car is a FWD and drive accordingly. So when we come upon places that looks like real 4x4 "country", we avoid them or turn-around.
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Replying to: cdptrap (Jan 09, 2007 4:46 pm) The HH AWD is intended for very limited use. A non hybrid AWD will not cease engaging the rear wheels after a short time, because they are mechanical drives, rather than electric motors. So yes, if you keep to roads that a FWD can handle, the HH is OK. However, the original post was talking about going into fields and such, where the earth would be wet and the wheels would spin.
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