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Toyota Avalon Brakes, ABS, VSC, etc.

151 messages,  Last post on Nov 24, 2009 at 6:06 AM

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#2 of 151 Maintenance on 2001 Avalon by rceggl May 21, 2002 (3:13 pm)
I have the extended 100,000 mile bumper to bumper on this car. Presently, 38,000 miles. At regular service last week, I was informed that the next service should include a Power Flush on both the Automatic Transmission and the Brake line. Reason, "condensation has added moisture to especially the brake line". The brake line is a sealed system and it seems to me that if there is moisture in it, then there is something wrong with the system and should be covered by the warranty. Honestly, I do not believe there is any moisture in the system. Am finding Toyota to be suspect. Replies to this message: nippononly (May 21, 2002 4:31 pm) fritz1224 (May 21, 2002 6:00 pm) swschrad (May 21, 2002 10:24 pm) alcan (May 22, 2002 1:59 am) pluto5 (May 22, 2002 3:19 am) 8u6hfd (May 22, 2002 4:43 am) zone1 (Apr 03, 2005 2:40 pm) dbowe (Apr 11, 2005 2:19 pm)
#3 of 151 suspect the dealer by nippononly May 21, 2002 (4:31 pm)
Replying to: rceggl (May 21, 2002 3:13 pm) Common practice: charge for those power flushes. They cost $150 instead of $30. But if you ask them which they include in their standard warranty-level maintenance, it is the $30 dealie, so you probably just have a service advisor there that is either trying to spike you for some extra $$ or honestly does not know what he/she is talking about.   And you are right, if there were moisture in the brake system, that would indicate a problem that requires a repair, which would be under warranty if your 100K is a bumper to bumper.   By the way, the power flush is just a way of getting more of the old fluid out of the system, on the transmission. It can't hurt, but is probably a waste of money.   Try a different dealer?
#4 of 151 fluid changes by fritz1224 May 21, 2002 (6:00 pm)
Replying to: rceggl (May 21, 2002 3:13 pm) I have a 2k accord and it has a 3yr/45k requirement for brake fluid change. And moisture is the reason. As for being a sealed system. That may be true if just considering the lines, wheel cylinders and other parts that are filled with brake fluid and do not have an exposed surface to outside air. But the master cylinder is not air tight and moisture(in the form of humidity) can get absorbed into the fluid. This moisture when heated to the typical temperatures in a brake system will turn to steam with air being one of the components. Now we all know air in the brake system is a bad thing.(Air is compressable). This would result in less braking ability. Follow the owner's manual recommendations and keep your warranty valid. And that goes for the tranny as well. Well, that's my guess anyway. Sounds pretty good to me. And then there's also the sludge thing which would be especially bad for cars with ABS. If you have the extended warranty, one sure way to have Toyota deny a claim would be to not have the fluids changed according to the maintenance schedule in your owner's manual. Replies to this message: swschrad (May 21, 2002 10:24 pm)
#5 of 151 yeah, the fluid gets full of rust by swschrad May 21, 2002 (10:24 pm)
Replying to: fritz1224 (May 21, 2002 6:00 pm) I've had my exploder for two years, and the hydraulic fluid is getting darker. I decided to flush the lines in my 90 ranger after 5 years, and gawd, was the old fluid nasty, dirty and red! brake fluid is very hygroscopic, if there is any air exchange possibility to the resivoir that fluid will suck up the water. the rest of the story is an old one.   the stuff needs to be changed when it is noticeably not see-through any more -- original fluid is variously mildly honey-colored to clear depending on the phase of the moon and the width of ties.
#6 of 151 Brake fluid moisture contamination by alcan May 22, 2002 (1:59 am)
Replying to: rceggl (May 21, 2002 3:13 pm) Water does not get into brake hydraulic systems through condensation: http://www.batauto.com/articles/brkfld.html
#7 of 151 do you drive in a lake? by pluto5 May 22, 2002 (3:19 am)
Replying to: rceggl (May 21, 2002 3:13 pm) Brake fluid doesn't wear out so you probably don't need to change it unless you think water got into it. Dealers have their own maintenance schedules which have all kinds of ripoffs like engine flush which are not recommended by manufacturer. Best to find an independent shop and let them follow factory maintenance schedule. That way you are protected under warranty. Independents often have better techs with more experience and prices are usually lower.
#8 of 151 before this thread is closed or moved..... by 8u6hfd May 22, 2002 (4:43 am)
Replying to: rceggl (May 21, 2002 3:13 pm) When peforming a brake pad replacement, the master cylinder reservoir may be opened up when the tech squeezes the pistons in to get the caliper back onto the rotor. That would be where the moisture may come from.   Flushing the brake fluid is a cheap insurance for brake system reliability.   Automatic trans flush. A simple drain and refill of the ATF only replaces about 80% of the old fluid.
#9 of 151 Re: Maintenance on 2001 Avalon [rceggl] by zone1 Apr 03, 2005 (2:40 pm)
Replying to: rceggl (May 21, 2002 3:13 pm) Condensate will build up in the brake system of any car. You're right, the system is sealed, but it's not that tight. Moisture can get into the reservoir. And if I'm not mistaken, hot brake fluid is hydrophyllic, and will attract water vapor from the air. As the fluid cools the water will precipitate out. Left long enough, the water will pit the cylinders and cause leaks and spongy brakes. Happens on all cars. Now, whether 38,000 miles is when the system should be flushed, and whether a "power flush" is required are good questions. My experience has been to have the brakes bled to push the water out. Maybe the power flush does a better job. I guess what you should research is how much brake repairs can cost versus having the system flushed. I'm not real big on using Dealers for maintenance. If you still have suspicions, find a good mechanic and ask him. As to the transmission, I have heard that Toyota transmissions can be pretty brutal on the fluid so its a good idea to keep up on the changes. I also know that if you have an oil cooler, (most cars have one in the radiator; others may have a separate unit) that filings from the transmission can migrate there and then settle out in the bends of the tubing, where they begin to restrict the fluid movement. The effect can be that your transmission gets hotter than it should, and that's not good at all. So flushing once in a while is a good idea. Again, whether 38,000 miles is enough to cause a build up that you should be concerned about is something I don't know. But keep in mind that this stuff happens to all automatics, not just Toyota. Replies to this message: dbowe (Apr 11, 2005 2:19 pm)
#10 of 151 Re: Maintenance on 2001 Avalon [zone1] by dbowe Apr 11, 2005 (2:19 pm)
Replying to: zone1 (Apr 03, 2005 2:40 pm) Am sure that adding new brake fluid, transmission fluid, or coolant results in degradation of metal parts. (Ions in the fluid cause breakdown of the metal until equilibrium is established.) Therefore, you should either change the fluids regularly (40k miles) or not at all. Not changing them at all is probably better for your parts in the long run. Flushing will therefore re-excite the bits of metal gunk that are settled out. Alternatively, it will create more metal gunk that will stop up things. If your car is 10 years old and hasn't had the fluids changed, you run a big risk with your head gaskets by suddenly having your oil change guy "flush the system" for you. 2001 car, probably okay to change the fluids if you want to.

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