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SUVs Infiniti FX35 FX45 FX50 BMW X3 vs Subaru Forester/XT vs Infiniti FX 35 vs Toyota RAV4
1193 messages, Last post on Apr 18, 2008 at 2:49 PM
You are in the Infiniti FX35 FX45 FX50 Forum. Your Hosts are steve_ & tidester
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The bolt-on exhaust upgrade adds maybe 2% BHP and eliminates the possibility of mounting a towing hitch. If you're going to be offroading, I cant imagine any benefit from the upgrade....the ground clearance is also reduced by approx 1/2''. My house is at the top of a one mile 10-12% grade..I let the engine run just a few seconds before shutting it down...I try to keep an eye on the engine temp gauge. I have found that propping the "bonnet" open after long periods of turbo drving helps the engine cool quicker. The 4 Runner, while immense by comparison and much more money, come with a system to control descent speed. I just use 1st gear. mark |
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Juice and I just got back from a BMW "Ultimate Driving Event" that featured the X3. It was held at FedEx Field's parking lot, in the DC suburbs. The autocross course was 1 mile in length, and pretty challenging with off-camber corners, and also corners with decreasing radius. Top speeds approaching 60 mph were possible. We had a racing instructor guiding us through the course, and we got about 6 laps/miles of autocrossing in. Bottom line: The SUV X3 3.0 automatic really does handle very well, especially at the limit—and we did reach the limit all over the course.  The instructors were saying, under these autocross conditions, the standard tires last about 50 miles! Lots of fun! I'm sure juice will have many comments to pass on as well. Bob
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Replying to: rsholland (Aug 06, 2004 12:07 pm)  I'd bet FedEx Field's tarmac is in much better shape than Philadelphia Park's. Ed |
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You beat me to the punch! But yeah, had a great time today, and I'll share my comments and compare it to the F-XT in each of the following categories, more or less like Ed did a while back. Outside: I arrived early so I had more than an hour to walk around and in the X3. They had spec sheets with prices and I have to admit I cringed a little when I saw that metallic paint and cruise control are $475 options, each. That would be OK if the paint didn't have swirl marks all over it. Nice beefy brakes, vented discs even in the rear. Unpainted black cladding on the lower portions, plus both bumpers, should be low maintenance. Interestingly Subaru does this only on its cheapest model, the X. The D-pillar really eats up some visibility, Bob pointed out that the window is smaller than it looks, even. Forester has much, much better visiblity in all directions. A-pillar is thinner and the windows are bigger and more square. Inside: nice headliner, same as Forester actually. Plastics are a mixed bag, many sound hollow and feel hard. The lid on the storage bin at the top of the dash felt particularly cheap, and the aluminum trim looked real but already showed some wear. The rubber liners for the bin and cup holders should be removable, but aren't. Odd placing of the cup holders, too, and the passenger one is flimsy. The rear seats get none at all. Stubborn Germans, this is supposed to be a family car. Models we drove had the wood trim, but it looks so fake I wouldn't believe you if you told me it's real. Looks like runny paint, brown and tan mixed. Visibility was only so-so, big blind spot on the driver's side for me. The cargo area is not very long, but it is tall. Be ready to stack things, bring boxy items. To the right there's a little cooler that looks like it could hold a can or two, but the Forester has one in the spare tire that can hold a full 12 pack. Seats are nice, but honestly I would like a little more side bolstering, which the Forester offers. Rear seats BMW wins, hands down. Much more room. But the front seats in the Forester actually offer more knee space. Acceleration with the 3.0l was comparatively leisurely off the line, this is not a quick SUV by any stretch of the imagination. Drive an F-XT with a manual and this seems downright slow. Even the XT with the automatic is substantially quicker, though power delivery is a little less linear with the Subie's automatic. Running acceleration, however, was more than adequate. You feel the mass more off the line, but once it gets going you never feel lacking. I'm not sure I could recommend the 2.5l, which we didn't get to drive. I can't imagine that would be much fun, though. Braking seemed great, no fade was noticed even after repeated hot laps. We got 3 laps at a time, and 4 of us did that, so 12 laps with only quick driver changes and it took the punishment nicely. Aces for the brakes. I can't compare to the Forester XT because I haven't had the chance to test those in the same condition. The F-XT is a lot lighter so who knows. Handling with the X3 was good, but you do get a lot of body roll. Dive and squat control is definitely superior to the Subaru, but the X3 feels a lot heavier and not nearly as tossable. They say you can teach and Elephant how to dance, but you're still dancing with an Elephant. The X3 needs to go on Atkins. Call in Colin Chapman, I think subtracting 500 lbs would make this a hoot. I had high expectations for the steering, but left a little disappointed with the slow ratio and delayed turn-in. I did not like the 4 spoke wheel, but a 3 spoke wheel comes with the Sport Package. Speaking of which, that might have lessened the body roll a bit, but I can imagine the ride would end up quite stiff. We went over a split in the pavement and you heard each tire pounding over it. The Sport package upgrades the 17" rims to 18"s, plus stiffer springs, and I doubt it would be happy on my commutes to Washington, DC. So the ride, even with the non-sport models, was a little stiff for family duties. Kudos to BMW for hosting such an excellent event. We got classroom instruction, sort of a refresher course, then a demo with a pro driver and 3 laps with that same driver coaching us. After some more instruction, we got another 3 laps. When we wrapped up, they gave us a quick review on ABS use, and then handed out a couple of awards for Most Improved and Best Performance, a neat little traffic cone. I was more than a little surprised when they handed the Best Performance award to me, along with a Sirius logo'd hat. Hey, I'll take it! My review sounds critical but I actually really liked the X3. Perhaps I put it to a higher standard because I was aware of the much higher price. The BMW name, service, resale, are all appealing, but have no doubt, the Forester XT easily wins the bang-for-the-buck contest. -juice
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Replying to: ateixeira (Aug 06, 2004 5:41 pm) |
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| ....but IIRC, the dollar differenctial flitting in and out of the equation is a (for YT) real factor....sure it's a nice car, but.......ez | |
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They only had the 3.0l models for us to drive, even then most had several options so we're talking about $40k or so list prices on them. Wonder what the 2.5l would feel like. It might not be too bad with a manual tranny. -juice |
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I think the X3 would be a lot more fun with the 6-speed manual. Bob |
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I have had a new 2004 XT for a week. Just passed break-in. This is beyond a doubt the most fun, best-engineered vehicle I have ever owned. And that includes the BMW 2002 I drove for 19 years. |
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Well, to be fair, your XT has had the benefit of decades of engineering advances. Let's not take anything away from a car that basically created the entire sports sedan segment. In a lot of ways I have more respect for that 2002 than I do for the new Bimmers. It was light, simple, back-to-basics, and nothing was on it that didn't make it go faster. -juice
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