- #101 of 120
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Re: Freesytle needs Mitsu. Outlander Features... [barnstormer64]
by coldcranker
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Feb 01, 2007 (9:22 pm)
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Replying to: barnstormer64 (Feb 01, 2007 6:15 pm)
Haldex's own website www.haldex.com has meatier technical information (in contrast to the "AWD Club" consumer-lite notes you cited). In there, you'll see what I had a Ford tech tell me at the dealership when I bought my Freestyle: The technician put an AWD on a lift about 1 inch above the ground, the tires not touching the ground. He then noticed the rear wheels were moving when the front wheels were also moving, and he couldn't stop the rear wheels with his hands, so there was some torque applied. This direct experiment lines up with the Haldex website's statement that the ECU (vehicle's engine computer) can control the non-slip threshold pressure in the wet-clutch pack. This also makes sense since you don't want the rear wheels back-driving the differential, and you don't want the clutch pack to routinely slip loosely/slightly in normal driving, using pretension to engage higher torque levels with less noise and vibration. In summary, there is some energy wasted when using a rear diff and wet clutch pack with this system, and thats why the MPG drops. The extra weight alone of the Haldex system is not enough by itself to lower MPG more than about 0.2 MPG, its the internal friction that saps MPG more.
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- #102 of 120
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These 2 vehicles aren't even the same class.
by mschmal
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Feb 02, 2007 (9:05 am)
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The Outlander is built on a Lancer platform a B segment platform. The Freestyle is built on a D segment platform. It is just plain BIGGER in every dimension.
Why don't we discuss which weighs more, apples or oranges.
Mark.
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- #103 of 120
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Re: Freesytle needs Mitsu. Outlander Features... [coldcranker]
by barnstormer64
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Feb 02, 2007 (6:53 pm)
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Replying to: coldcranker (Feb 01, 2007 9:22 pm)
The technician put an AWD on a lift about 1 inch above the ground, the tires not touching the ground. He then noticed the rear wheels were moving when the front wheels were also moving, and he couldn't stop the rear wheels with his hands, so there was some torque applied.
This is what I'd expect, given the link I quoted. The front weels (and drive shaft) were spinning faster than the rear wheels (since there was no road to turn them), and the system thought that the front wheels were slipping. So, torque was being applied to the rear wheels.
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- #104 of 120
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Re: Freesytle needs Mitsu. Outlander Features... [barnstormer64]
by passat_2002
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Feb 03, 2007 (7:59 am)
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Replying to: barnstormer64 (Feb 02, 2007 6:53 pm)
Exactly. Glad somebody else caught this too.
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- #105 of 120
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Re: Freesytle needs Mitsu. Outlander Features... [barnstormer64]
by stevedebi
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Feb 05, 2007 (8:43 am)
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Replying to: barnstormer64 (Feb 01, 2007 6:15 pm)
" In normal driving, the vehicle uses front-wheel-drive, but the driveshaft also turns whenever the vehicle is moving, ready to supply power to the rear wheels at a moment’s notice."
I agree that the rear wheels don't turn, but we should acknowledge that having the system turn the shaft will cause some penalty in MPG. It takes energy to turn something.
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- #106 of 120
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Re: Freesytle needs Mitsu. Outlander Features... [stevedebi]
by barnstormer64
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Feb 05, 2007 (7:11 pm)
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Replying to: stevedebi (Feb 05, 2007 8:43 am)
I agree that the rear wheels don't turn, but we should acknowledge that having the system turn the shaft will cause some penalty in MPG. It takes energy to turn something.
There's no doubt that the friction involved with turning the driveshaft/etc will result in a mpg reduction.
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- #107 of 120
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Re: Electric and...Re: 6 speed replacing CVT? [bobw3]
by rick2456
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Feb 09, 2007 (6:38 am)
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Replying to: bobw3 (Jan 20, 2007 5:28 am)
Even better would be the capability to upgrade via wirelessly (onstar, etc) or cell phone connection. Then again, the dealers would lose a lot of service dollars so that will never happen.
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- #108 of 120
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Re: Freesytle needs Mitsu. Outlander Features... [passat_2002]
by coldcranker
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Feb 09, 2007 (7:03 pm)
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Replying to: passat_2002 (Feb 03, 2007 7:59 am)
passat_2002, Note the Freestyle/Haldex needs to keep the clutch compressed, which means some torque is transmitted. This prevents back-driving the chunky differential in the back. This is the PreX on the www.haldex.com website. Again, avoid the "AWD Club" gee-whiz site, which can mislead, and get right to the graphs at www.haldex.com in their technical section (see Torque Transfer).
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- #109 of 120
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Re: Freesytle needs Mitsu. Outlander Features... [coldcranker]
by bruneau1
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Feb 10, 2007 (11:06 am)
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Replying to: coldcranker (Feb 09, 2007 7:03 pm)
The 2008 Taurus X will not use the Haldex system anymore. Also the power steering will be electric to improve economy. I doubt that it will improve feel. I am glad they are getting any from the monochromatic interior, and hope they improve the road noise.
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- #110 of 120
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Towing
by thomas23
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Feb 13, 2007 (5:53 am)
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Can anyone tell me if they are pulling a boat trailer with the Freestyle? I just found out that our boat storage facility is converting to "dockominiums" so I will be trailering out boat from now on. Boat is only 18 feet but is saltwater fishing, heavy!
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