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Electric Vehicle Pros & Cons

1586 messages,  Last post on Oct 23, 2009 at 4:19 PM

You are in the Electric Vehicles Forum. Your Host is pf_flyer

What is this discussion about? Alternative Fuels, Coupe, Hatchback, Truck, Sedan, SUV


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#81 of 1586
Re: Chinese electric cars [tpe] by apeweek
Aug 14, 2006 (3:43 pm)
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Replying to: tpe (Aug 14, 2006 1:54 pm)

I agree that the Thundersky batteries seem too good... but this is one step up from the typical vaporware, because they are definitely for sale, ostensibly at the price they tout on that chart. The capacity and charge cycle claims will eventually be verified by the buyers. But even conventional Li-Ion performance at that price is pretty noteworthy.
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Here's someone who has been using the Thunder Sky lithium batteries for a year (not sure if it is exactly the same product as what they are selling now):
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http://www.speedace.info/lithium_ion_electric_car.htm
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Another entry in the 'interesting battery technology' department is Firefly Energy. They have a new take on the old lead-acid battery that gives it NIMH-like performance at a lead-acid price:
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http://www.greencarcongress.com/2006/01/firefly_energy_.html
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This one could turn out to be vapor, but I hope not - I like it.
#82 of 1586
Re: Chinese electric cars [apeweek] by tpe
Aug 14, 2006 (5:56 pm)
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Replying to: apeweek (Aug 14, 2006 3:43 pm)

Interesting article on the "Jester". It all sounds very credible. Do you know how much this battery pack weighed? The other question I have is in regards to the date, February 2004. When I did a websearch on these batteries most of the information was from around this same time. I'm a little curious, why no new developments in the last 2+ years?
 
That firefly article was also interesting. 170 watt hours per kilogram is better than the NiMH batteries currently being used in hybrids. In the Toyota RAV4 EV the 28 kWh battery pack weighed a little over 900 lbs. Using batteries with this technology the weight would be less than 400 lbs.
#83 of 1586
Re: Chinese electric cars [tpe] by apeweek
Aug 14, 2006 (6:14 pm)
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Replying to: tpe (Aug 14, 2006 5:56 pm)

The Chinese Thunder Sky Li-Ion batteries have been available for a few years to EV builders, but looking at the recent specs, it seems they have tweaked the performance lately. The low price is definitely something new. I'll be looking a putting them into my own EV at the next battery change. The only rub is the charging system. Lead-acid batteries are real easy to charge, but Li-Ion are very finicky - and dangerous - if charged incorrectly.
#84 of 1586
Re: Chinese electric cars [apeweek] by tpe
Aug 15, 2006 (3:13 am)
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Replying to: apeweek (Aug 14, 2006 6:14 pm)

Apparently there is going to be a whole fleet of Thunder Sky powered electric buses transporting spectators at the 2008 Beijing Olympics. That should generate some good publicity for the technology. China is clearly placing a greater emphasis on EVs than the US is. Just one more thing for us to import.
 
I don't currently drive an EV but have made up my mind that my next car will be electric. I also plan on having a solar charging station. It won't be cheap or cost effective but at least I'll feel like I am no longer part of the problem. Not every decision has to be justified in terms of dollars and cents. For instance, I spend thousands of dollars every year on taking a vacation. Hardly a good investment from a financial perspective but still worth every penny.
#85 of 1586
Re: Chinese electric cars [tpe] by terry92270
Aug 15, 2006 (7:55 am)
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Replying to: tpe (Aug 15, 2006 3:13 am)

Well, guilt can be a powerful motivator, I guess...
 
Vacations, for their restorative powers, have been shown in thousands of studies to actually be more than "cost-effective" and one of the factors crucial to good work performance. That is why most major corporations require employees to take them.
#86 of 1586
LTC working on battery 100% more capacity than current LiON technology by larsb
Aug 15, 2006 (8:43 am)
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http://www.reliableplant.com/article.asp?pagetitle=LTC%20pushing%20envelope%20on- %20lithium-ion%20battery%20technology&articleid=2333
 
If these guys get their battery in an EV, it would be a good thing. 60 MPG and 60 miles per charge.
 
Automotive application
 
LTC currently offers a battery system that powers an hybrid electric vehicle up to 50 miles per gallon. The company is constantly developing new innovations enabling their technology to break into the next frontier.
 
A leading contender in the hybrid electric vehicle (HEV) race, LTC is working in conjunction with an automotive manufacturer to develop a high-power battery management system designed to run a four-passenger HEV capable of 60 MPG, with a range of 60 MPC in electrical mode with zero emissions. This will be the furthest distance traveled by standard production line vehicle.
 
"The HEV battery will produce 12 kWh, which is about 100 percent more than what is on the market today for a comparable size battery," said Brandt.
#87 of 1586
Re: Chinese electric cars [terry92270] by tpe
Aug 15, 2006 (9:11 am)
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Replying to: terry92270 (Aug 15, 2006 7:55 am)

Maybe taking vacations wasn't the best example. My point is that we all spend money on things for personal reasons other than whether or not its a good financial investment. In my case I don't think that it is so much guilt as it is a resentment of the firmly entrenched, government protected special interests. So while some people might protest by spending their time and parading around with a sign I will protest by spending my money on a disruptive technology.
#88 of 1586
EV1 Battery by gypsy_tech
Aug 15, 2006 (6:42 pm)
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I have been reading about the latest battery technology and was wondering if anyone knew how much the battery weighed in the last version of GM's EV1. According to the blog's http://ev1-club.power.net/archive/nimhtest/ghanssen.htm and movie Who Killed The Electric Car it seams that it was able to go over 100 miles on a charge at normal speeds.
 I am considering building an EV and am looking for the most practical power source.
And to the writer who seams to think California wasn't ready for an EV a lot of EV1 owners would beg to differ.
http://ev1-club.power.net/
Thanks;
#89 of 1586
Re: EV1 Battery [gypsy_tech] by john500
Aug 16, 2006 (3:44 am)
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Replying to: gypsy_tech (Aug 15, 2006 6:42 pm)

Chevron bought out a large portion of GM's stake in Stan Ovshinsky's battery company. The name of the battery company is now Cobasys (www.cobasys.com, formery Texaco Ovonic). I would start there to see what is available.
#90 of 1586
Re: EV1 Battery [gypsy_tech] by tpe
Aug 16, 2006 (4:22 am)
Reply

Replying to: gypsy_tech (Aug 15, 2006 6:42 pm)

The EV1's battery pack weighed 1,147 lbs and stored 26.4 kWh of energy. These batteries were manufactured by Ovonics, which is now Cobasys. For comparison the battery pack in Toyota's RAV4 EV weighed 200 lbs less yet stored an extra kWh of energy. These batteries were made by Panasonic. Panasonic is no longer allowed to manufacture these batteries. See what Wikipedia has to say about this under "incentives, quotas, and patent control in the US" at the following link.
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battery_electric_vehicle

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