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Hybrid Vehicles Electric Vehicles Electric Vehicle Pros & Cons
1586 messages, Last post on Oct 23, 2009 at 4:19 PM
You are in the Electric Vehicles Forum. Your Host is pf_flyer
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Here is a good analysis of Hydrogen electric vs battery electric. http://www.evworld.com/view.cfm?section=article&storyid=750 He quotes Los Angeles Times writer Dan Neal on Honda's Solar farm generating hydrogen for their hydrogen car: "I'm driving pharmaceutical-grade California sunshine: hydrogen generated in an experimental solar-powered station at Honda R&D America's facility in Torrance", and "I'm driving on pure hydrogen, the converted essence of the sun itself." The only problem, the author then points out, is that the Honda solar farm/Hydrogen production facility "on a daily basis, 32 kWh is consumed to make 1/2 kilogram of hydrogen. Of that 32 kWh, only about 8kWh is provided by the fuel cell system to run the vehicle's drive motor ; the other 24kWh is wasted.", and then states that for a battery electric "it will take about 0.30 kWh/mile for battery charging, or 8.4 kWh for 28 miles." Hmmm. So if they would have just used the same solar panels to charge the battery, they would have driven about 106 miles vs 28 miles for the fuel cell. You can't argue with that logic. Let's go Hydrogen! In any case, fuel cells are just a replacement for batteries. The car is still electric. There is no reason not to build battery elcetric vehicles now until fuel cells are viable, is there? That's the big lie. When car companies say they are waiting for fuel cells to improve.
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Replying to: prm1 (Jul 27, 2006 7:50 am) Absolutely. People need to understand that the established auto manufacturer's business model is based on the ICE. I hear a lot of comments that the auto makers would enthusiastically embrace EVs if they really believed anyone would buy them. That's just not true. Toyota would not make as much money selling 400,000 Camry EVs as they would selling the same number of ICE Camrys even if the mark-up over cost was the same. Maintenance and spare parts is a big component of the auto industry's revenue. EVs are relatively maintenance free and electric motors last longer than ICEs. The emergence of EV manufacturers will be similar to what we saw in the early 70's when the Japanese imports started showing up. Initially the domestic big 3 chose not to compete in this segment of the market. Primarily because it involved building cars that weren't as profitable as what they were currently producing. Well look what that shortsightedness got them. |
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Although I love the idea of having an all electric car for daily commuting, I can't get over that I also have a need for a car that I can use to take long trips with. I just can't afford to have two vehicles; one for commuting and another for when I take trips. I wonder if there is a way to have the wonderful all electric vehicle for commuting, but still have the ability to have the vehicle be able to travel for a full day without having to be re-charged or so that I wouldn't have to stop more than say 1/2 hour for that full day's travel? I would approximate that a full days travel might be 10-12 hours.
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Replying to: michael2003 (Aug 02, 2006 2:35 am) For those people that say they need a vehicle capable of travelling distances over 200 miles. I wonder how many times a year trips of this length are made? If the answer is around 3 then how much would it cost to rent a vehicle on those occasions? Some people already do this to keep miles off their personal vehicle. When you consider that the cost of electricity is about 1/4 the cost of gas then the rental expense could be recouped in gas savings. |
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Replying to: michael2003 (Aug 02, 2006 2:35 am) Plug-in hybrid.
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Replying to: rorr (Aug 02, 2006 4:58 am)  I know that I would be one of them!
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Replying to: michael2003 (Aug 02, 2006 5:25 am) http://www.businessweek.com/autos/content/jun2006/bw20060628_655501.htm http://www.boston.com/business/technology/articles/2006/06/26/mit_research_may_s- pell_end_for_the_battery/
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Replying to: tpe (Aug 02, 2006 7:27 am) 
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Replying to: michael2003 (Aug 03, 2006 2:27 am) The ICE would almost immediately become obsolete. |
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Replying to: tpe (Aug 02, 2006 7:27 am) Any discussion involving the "cleanest" solution must include a discussion of the source of the electricity. I know there is a lot of emphasis in here regarding the use of renewables (predominately solar/wind) but the facts are these: Between 1993 and 2004, the amount of electrical energy produced in the U.S. from 'other renewables' (principally solar and wind; not including hydro) increased by 18.6% (from 76,213 to 90,408 gigawatt/hours). Over that same period of time, the total amount of electrical energy produced in the U.S. increased by 24.2% (from 3,197,191 to 3,970,555 gigawatt/hours). http://www.eia.doe.gov/cneaf/electricity/epa/epat1p1.html Conclusions to be drawn: despite two terms of the most 'renewable friendly' administration as you'll likely to get, despite numerous advancements in renewable technology, despite ever rising energy costs and worldwide increases in demand of petroleum products, the % of electrical energy the U.S. produces from renewables has gone DOWN over the last 11 years (from 2.4% to 2.3%). Over that same period of time, the amount of electricity produced from fossil fuels (coal, petroleum, NG and other gases) has increased from 69.8% to 71.1%. So, my question is this: IS the 'cleanest' solution, given the CURRENT power production infrastructure, electricity?
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