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Smart Shopper What's the best vehicle for my needs?
1145 messages, Last post on Sep 17, 2009 at 12:59 PM
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Replying to: maxlee2 (Sep 17, 2008 12:31 am) You have two options - buy something old with no depreciation left in it, or buy something that doesn't depreciate at all.(niche car) On the first list would be older classics like a BMW 2002. In fact, it might go *up* a bit. The trick is to find economical and good vehicles that are modern, collectible, and inexpensive to maintain - yet also get good mpg. An old Mercedes 4 cylinder diesel also works as well - due to their popularity right now. An old Volvo also might work. Cute/retro, safe, and repairs are easy. An old Toyota 4x4 or Wrangler also should be on this list, because of the off-roading crowd who desire them. Insurance, tax, and registration will be much less than with a new car. My 87 4Runner costs me about $100 a month in repairs, but registration was a whopping $56 as well. And it gets 19-20mpg. 4 cylinder plus manual is great.  On the second choice, new, you have three cars. 1: VW TDI. These are in uber-high demand right now and retain their value. Maybe $1-2K a year depreciation. (note this is STILL way more than a used classic will likely cost you in repairs) 2: Mini. Base model, manual, nothing on it except for maybe handling bits. This costs less and depreciates less as well since it is desirable to the DIY modifier crowd - they want a stock Mini that hasn't been blinged out. Also, accessories are most of the initial depreciation in a car, and Mini is no exception. Without any of this, the depreciation is very low. 3: Smart. This is high demand right now - almost cult status. Buy it and sell it in two years for nearly what you paid. Fuel economy is going to be moot. Expect 20-30mpg in the best case as most engines take at least 5-10 miles to properly warm up and obtain their best mileage. So you'll be getting about 10-15mpg the first few minutes and then the rated just about when you get to work. It's basically a line like a HP graph - MPG is terrible the first minute and gets better until about ten minutes in it hits a plateau and stays there. So don't worship MPG if you're only driving 200-300 miles a month to work and back. For most cars, that's a tank of gas per month. Maybe $20 difference between a typical car and a super high mpg one... |
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Hey there everyone, I'm looking for advice on which family sedan you would purchase and why, given the following criteria: * reliable/Japanese * low depreciation * <$10,000 * good highway cruiser * 25+mpg on the highway I've been thinking that an early 2000s Honda Accord or Nissan Maxima might fit the bill nicely, but was wondering if there were any gems out that I might be missing. Thanks! Brian.
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Replying to: brian60 (Oct 29, 2008 11:53 am) Anyhow, add Toyota Camry to your list above with those requ'ts. |
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Replying to: brian60 (Oct 29, 2008 11:53 am) Buick has been scoring in the top few for car makers in the last couple of years. The cars also depreciate like a rock, so a 2007 base model can be had for about $10-12K. They get 28-30mpg highway in real world driving(about 24-25mpg city/highway combined), seat 6(with the bench seat option - highly recommended) and drive great as a highway cruiser. Plus, the engine and transmission combination is bulletproof. Better interior layout and amenities as well than a Maxima or Accord from 2000.. Plus, in 2007, GM started offering their 5yr/100K drive train warranty. That's really quite nice. The 2006 models are the same, just with 4/50K warranty. This is basically an evolution model based upon the LeSabre, which is a good car as well. Links: Buick reliability: http://editorial.autos.msn.com/article.aspx?cp-documentid=435706 Note how only the following non european/non japanese cars made that list: Buick LaCrosse Lincoln Continental Lincoln Town Car The Vibe is really a reworked Matrix, so it's not "domestic" That's a VERY short recommended list. But Buick did tie Lexus in quality in 2007: http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/news/releases/pressrelease.aspx?ID=2007130 It's a real sleeper that isn't on most radars. http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/cars-trucks/2007-Buick-LaCrosse/ Note the reliability. 10?. It's a bit bland, but it's dirt cheap and you can get a 2-3 year old car instead of a 7-8 year old one. As the old saying goes, GM makes the best used cars...  A typical car: http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?ct=p&car_id=253209199 2006 models are $10K all over town now. My mother's LeSabre is nearly 10 years old and has had no problems other than a couple of modules and an engine mount. Not bad for 80K miles(so far). |
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Replying to: brian60 (Oct 29, 2008 11:53 am) That said, a few cars that you might want to consider include the already-mentioned Toyota Camry, the Toyota Avalon, and the Nissan Altima. The Altima of those years feels a little cheaper than the others, in my opinion, but the V6 has the same powertrain as the Maxima. The Avalon is probably the most comfort-oriented in that group (and most likely to make the neighbors think you spend most of your time at the bingo parlor, if you know what I mean...). I would personally also look at some of the domestic brands - they really aren't as bad as many people perceive them to be. Because of this, they are often available fairly cheap (due to the large initial depreciation), but obviously if this doesn't appeal to you there's no sense in taking time to list them. |
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Thanks for your input, everyone. plekto, There is some appeal in getting a low-mileage recent vintage American vehicle over a higher-mileage much older Japanese vehicle, but there are two things working against this in my particular situation. First, I already relationships with three very good indy mechanics servicing Japanese brands (Nissan/Infiniti, Toyota/Lexus, Honda/Acura, Mazda) and second and more importantly, nobody in my area drives American cars so the used market market is very shallow for them. Also, why do the LaCrosse's that Buick sends to China look so much better than the ones they sell here? stovebolter, I specified "low depreciation" because I would anticipate trading in this particular vehicle in a few years to buy my wife a new car, and at this end of the market, the Toyotas and the Hondas only seem to depreciate about a grand a year, so it's a minimal outlay for me over the course of ownership. I know that the Avalon is a hidden bargain, but I just don't see myself driving one (whereas I see the Ford Crown Vic/Lincoln Towncar as a kinda cool retirement-set vehicle). I know that the domestics have improved in recent years (and interestingly, a lot of the Japanese brands have fallen in quality during the same timeframe), but I admittedly have my biases after experiencing domestic products from the 70s and 80s growing up and having worked in the industry briefly in the late 90s. Even so, I was pretty impressed by a taxi ride in the current model Chevy Malibu (which is out of my price range) and with my Opel/Saturn Astra rental in Germany.
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Replying to: brian60 (Oct 29, 2008 7:36 pm) A shallow used market is perfect. You need to think of this as the opposite of what NEW car do I want. Instead you want to think "what car is made well but holds its value the worst and is likely driven by some elderly person who passed away so it has low miles?" That's just not an import. If you want better handling and a sportier car with the same quality, you can also look at the Pontiac Grand Prix. These go for as little as $10K for a two year old model. Sure, the GM 3.8 is an old engine, but old engines equal less to fix and no recalls or gremlins. And the replacement cost of a transmission repair in a recent vintage Camry is... $3500+. That 4 speed in the GM is $1200 all over town, since it's an over 20 year old design. GM builds great cars mechanically. As good as Toyota makes. Just their marketing and management skills are horrid. Bottom of the barrel. Their exterior styling is also nothing special, either, though it's not nearly as awful as Chrysler or Nissan's ick from around 2000. But a perfect combination for a used choice. Note - you can get a first generation Cadillac CTS for not a lot more - closer to $15K. Everyone says it's bland inside and so on, but compared to an Accord or a Chevrolet or similar, it's quite nice. It failed as a luxury sport sedan, new, but *used*, compared to a even a new Civic, it's a big step up. The Towncar/Grand Marquis also made that list. It gets terrible MPG, but it's dirt cheap to run and overbuilt. You can find these that are one of the 15% that are not sold to fleets(crucial part here) that still suffer depreciation like the fleet models, or close to it. Cruises down Midwestern highways and the like like nothing else. You press the gas and the scenery moves faster. Hardly can tell the engine's running at highway speeds. Another choice is very specific: An Early 2000s Mercedes C class. No navigation, no sunroof, no fancy electrical or add-on options to break. The 230K model with the smaller engine and a manual transmission. Mercedes still builds some of the best engines on the planet. But they, like VW, suffer from poor electrical quality.(same suppliers for switches and so on) The base model can be had with manual windows, no sunroof, and so on. Less electrical is the key(same with VWs btw) With a manual transmission, it's really hard to break. This exact model is popular in Europe for that reason. The 1.8L Supercharged engine gets roughly 35mpg highway as well and still cranks out 190HP or so. Most are the little 2 door coupe, but they also made it as an option in a sedan. Because it's the baby Benz(tm), it has very poor resale value and is quite reasonably priced.(most people see it as not a REAL Mercedes, so it suffers some). Also, there's any car that you can get with a TDI engine in it that's not VW. |
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Replying to: brian60 (Oct 29, 2008 7:36 pm) I would also suggest doing a simple KBB comparison with some what-ifs, such as the KBB value of the vehicle now with the current mileage, then the KBB value of the vehicle with the mileage you expect it to have when you trade it in. That should give you a decent idea if the car has already taken its hit or if it will continue to rapidly decrease in value when you're driving it. |
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That's just not an import. If you want better handling and a sportier car with the same quality, you can also look at the Pontiac Grand Prix. These go for as little as $10K for a two year old model. Sure, the GM 3.8 is an old engine, but old engines equal less to fix and no recalls or gremlins. And the replacement cost of a transmission repair in a recent vintage Camry is... $3500+. That 4 speed in the GM is $1200 all over town, since it's an over 20 year old design. How can you recommend the Grand Prix! The interior layout and design would have been considered bad for a 90's car. Got stuck with one recently as a rental. God awful.  Not sure about that cost to replace the tranny either. I've been reading (through the forums) $2500-$3000.
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Replying to: dtownfb (Oct 30, 2008 9:46 am) As for the transmission, a 4 speed GM automatic is cheap to fix. I can find a dozen places here in Los Angeles that will rebuild it for under $1500. They don't replace - they rebuild them since they are such basic and well understood(and plentiful) design. If it's just the torque converter that died(about 90% likely), it's labor to yank it and $300 or so for the part, tops. |
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Smart Shopper What's the best vehicle for my needs?
