Last post on Nov 12, 2006 at 1:07 PM
You are in the Cadillac DTS
What is this discussion about?
Cadillac DTS, Sedan
#1 of 64 V-Series DTS
Aug 01, 2006 (1:50 pm)
Is there in any formation on the possibility of V-series for the DTS?
#2 of 64 Re: V-Series DTS [supercool]
Aug 02, 2006 (6:24 am)
There is no indication from Cadillac that there will be a V-series DTS as long as it is a front wheel drive car. The DTS is not a sports sedan, and should not have been rebadged DTS, but should have been badged DLS (deVille Luxury Sedan).
If the DTS becomes a rear wheel drive model, then possibly a V-series could make sense, but I see no reason to add yet another model to the V-series cars. The CTS_V and STS_V models make some sense to me, with their BMW counterparts being the M3 and M5 models. However, there is no BMW M7 model, which would be silly as the 7-series is a luxury sedan, not a sports sedan. There is the AMG S-class Mercedes cars though, unfortunately, none of Cadillac's current V-series models are competitive with them, so rather than Cadillac spending money on a DTS V-series car, they should upgrade the current models to make them better able to compete with the AMG Mercedes models.
#3 of 64 Make the DTS - V!!!
Aug 02, 2006 (4:47 pm)
Upgrading is what the V-series is attempting to do.
I agree with you on the front wheel drive status.
Nevertheless, a full size Caddy boosting sport performance would complete the line up for Cadillac. Additionally, by having a sport sedan, the image would rub off on the regular "DLS" buyer and increase sales overall.
Since the DTS-V would a speciality model, as are the other V-cars, the regular buyer would purchase the "DLS" by association.
Another impetus get the DTS-V would be to simply compete in the class. A reason the upscale American cars are not taken seriously is due to lack of being competitive.
"You've got to be in the race to win the race."
As for the BMW -7 series, look at the general performance stats, and its clear to see that its a sport sedan, just short of the AMG class.
I want my DTS-V!!! Just call me a silly american, looking for some serious american performance.
#4 of 64 Re: Make the DTS - V!!! [supercool]
Aug 03, 2006 (1:13 pm)
Presently the AMG E63 is king. The BMW M5 is dead. The STS_V never was.
A DTS RWD sedan might make a good platform for a DTS_V if and only if the V-series version sports a V16. Building this would probably complete the job of bankrupting GM.
Aug 03, 2006 (1:30 pm)
The STS-v with a '06 E55 AMG matching 469hp is very competitve. Most auto rags actually prefer it over the $83k E55. Although the E63 is faster, it's not out just yet.
#6 of 64 Re: um, SLS [blkhemi]
Aug 04, 2006 (6:11 am)
The car magazines are running stories on their tests, and comparison tests of the AMG E63, so there are some E63 out there. While the STS_V has decent performance, and compared to the M5, is a car that can be driven in stop and go traffic on a daily basis, the STS_V was never a top choice in any comparison test.
I still think that a FWD DTS V-series is a silly idea. A more upscale RWD DTS might be a good platform for a V-series, but now the base price will probably be $60,000 for a V8, $120,000 for a V12 and, finally, $300,000 for the V16 V-series model.
#7 of 64 Re: um, SLS [sls002]
Aug 04, 2006 (4:40 pm)
Car and Driver placed the car ahead of the E55 only to be beat by the top dog M5.
To me, the STS-v splits the difference between them all. The car is an everyday user, not as hard edged as the M5, and more fun to drive than the E55, more reliable also.
As for the V16, we may as well forget it. That engine will never be produced unless Caddy finally decides to go upmarket. However, the V12 Escalade is a go for '08, along with hybrid. We may see this engine in a so-called DTS-v, if that ever comes true. I do believe that Caddy wants to get serious with the Europeans, witnessed by the awesome STS-v/CTS and CTS-v. And this is why the next DTS will be RWD with a sport variant similar to the S63/S65 AMG's from Benz.
#8 of 64 umm - blkhemi
Aug 05, 2006 (8:02 am)
In the July Automobile, they had a comparison test of the new V10 Audi S6, the V10 M5 BMW, and the AMG E63 Mercedes. The STS_V was not considered. They ranked the M5 3rd, the Audi 2nd and the E63 first.
My point has been that the FWD DTS would not make much of a platform for a serious V-series car. The issue for a RWD DTS is what sort of car should this be. If the future DTS is to continue as a popularly priced large sedan as the Sedan deVille has been historically, then what platform it should be built on is the question. The sigma platform is expensive, and a large sedan (larger than the STS) should be more expensive than the V8 STS is. This would move the DTS into a higher price range than the popularly price DTS is currently. The "global RWD platform" that GM's Holden models use for their larger sedans would make sense for a popularly price RWD deVille Cadillac. This would not be the best platform for a serious V-series deVille though. The best platform for a V-series deVille would be the sigma platform.
At this point in time, with the future deVille replacement's platform in some question, I think talk of a V-series model is premature.
#9 of 64 DTS-V is possible!`
Aug 06, 2006 (12:21 am)
A DTS-V is possible simply from the current GM parts bin.
A 16 cylinder engine is out of the question with gas prices above 2 dollars, and that is not even considering the current 3 dollars prices that we are seeing, which by the way is just un-American. Additionally, these prices are overpriced with the amount of oil that is available throught out the world, however this is an issue to a different forum.
A FWD DTS-V is a non-sensical competitor; however an AWD is the way to go, since the parts bin is already established by virture of the STS. The base components are in place and balancing is all that remains for the extended wheel base necessary for a DTS.
Further, base competition is now 500 hp in the upper eschelon class of the M cars of BMW and the S cars of Audi, and Mecerdes Benz. The North Star power plant is easily capable of producing these horses and if necessary to play hard ball, GM can certainly lean on the Corvette engine to get the job done and get into the game.
As for marketing, using the Chrysler model of the 300M and the hemi-engine; most 300M are base models, but the hemi-engine gets folks to by the base with the association of the hemi. A DTS-V can do the same marketing job!
With all this being said, I want my DTS-V!
#10 of 64 Re: DTS-V is possible!` [supercool]
Aug 06, 2006 (8:14 am)
The STS is a sigma-platform model. The sigma-platform AWD can't be transplanted into a FWD G-platform, which is what the FWD DTS is.
What you seem to be saying is that the refinement of the DOHC VVT northstar V8 should be replaced with an unrefined pushrod V8 of at least 500 horsepower.
In any case, I think that more can be done with the existing V-series models before wasting good money on yet another half baked V-series model.