Last post on Dec 20, 2012 at 7:29 AM
You are in the Acura TL
What is this discussion about?
Acura TL, Tires, Sedan
#65 of 403 Re: wai [tlhater]
Oct 13, 2006 (1:58 am)
I'm late to this discussion, but I'll throw in my 2 cents anyway. These comments are not directed to anyone in particular, just my observations:
(1) The Acura TL - especially in automatic form - is NOT a sports sedan. The fact that the 6-speed, which I own, has a stiffer suspension and Brembo brakes, makes it "sportier", and better handling but it is essentially still a sporty FWD family sedan.
(2) In general, the buying public has been suckered into thinking that 17-18-19" wheels and Z rated 45 series tires on a 62/38 weight un-balanced FWD car turn it into a sports sedan. The reality is that, while the larger wheels and tires may look aesthetically more appealing, they aren't increasing performance in proportion with their wear and cost. My 1995 Nissan Maxima with 15" wheels, 60 series tires that lasted 50,000 miles a set, can handle almost as nimbly as my TL 6-speed. It's FWD and 60/40 weight biased as well, but weighs around 450 lbs less than the TL.
(3) All season tires on the automatic should be capable of lasting 30,000+ miles, without any noticable decrease in the actual performance of the car. If you're plowing a FWD automatic into corners as though it's an M3, expect to pay the price in tire wear that will be WORSE than a RWD 50/50 balanced M3 (or 330i for that matter).
(4) All that said, I can still say "so what" with a smile on my face. If you bought a TL and didn't notice that, since the 2004 redesign, it came with 17" 235/45 series tires, well, shame on you. If you actually got a set of bum Tourenza's, go to court if you want. But all Tourenza's are pretty crappy from what I can tell. The (better) Potenza's on my 6-speed only lasted 17,000 miles. Pretty pitiful, since I traded in a Honda S2000 with 18,000 miles on it's original set of tires. Now that is a car that makes good use of rubber - but even it only came with 16" wheels and 55/50 series tires.
#66 of 403 Re: wai [habitat1]
Oct 13, 2006 (4:55 am)
"The Acura TL - especially in automatic form - is NOT a sports sedan."
Agreed. However, IMHO even in automatic form it is still a sporty FWD sedan.
"The fact that the 6-speed, which I own, has a stiffer suspension and Brembo brakes, makes it "sportier", and better handling but it is essentially still a sporty FWD family sedan.
In general, the buying public has been suckered into thinking that 17-18-19" wheels and Z rated 45 series tires on a 62/38 weight un-balanced FWD car turn it into a sports sedan."
So you don't think those tires contribute to your "sportier" driving experience?
My understanding of putting good "rubber" on a vehicle enhances the "performance" feel of a vehicle notwithstanding your obvious dislike for FWD.
#67 of 403 TL Sport sedan ?
Oct 13, 2006 (5:31 am)
I didn't give this question much thought before we bought the TL. My wife liked the car - so did I - the deal was great - the selection of cars was great - found the exact car we wanted in stock - try to do that with an IS ?50.
The IS was our first choice - but simply could not find ANY to buy -
I look at the TL as the sporty version of the Accord! BTW a manual tranny and stiff suspension do not = sport car. My Nissan 4x4 PICKUP had both - but I don't think many would call it a sporty vehicle.
The issue with the tires comes down to this - is it reasonable for Acura to agree to pay 50% of the cost if the tires last "only" 17,000 miles?
I say yes -
#68 of 403 Re: TL Sport sedan ? [z71bill]
Oct 13, 2006 (9:10 am)
I disagree and hopefully the court will to. I asked the dealer a question. When I brought the car in for servicing in March of this year, they did a tire rotation. The tech bulletin came out in February. Anyway, I had 11K miles on the car back then. Is someone going to tell me that in 5,000 the tires went from good condition to bald? I don't think so. The fact is this was a known problem in March, the dealer should have told me and Acura should have replaced the tires and fixed the toe then. If it was done then at 11K miles, I would have at least gotten another free tire out of it. That is, they would have paid 75% not 50%.
#69 of 403 Re: wai [ggesq]
Oct 13, 2006 (11:22 am)
"So you don't think those tires contribute to your "sportier" driving experience?"
Very marginally. I can definitely tell the suspension difference between the automatic and 6-speed. But I doubt that I - or anybody - could tell the difference between 17" 45 series tires and good 16" 55 series when it comes to handling in the TL. Maybe if I was inclined to take it to the track, but I never got to one with my S2000 and I'm still waiting to take a performance driving course before trying with my 911. Our TL gets "sporty" family duty, but not sports car duty.
"My understanding of putting good "rubber" on a vehicle enhances the "performance" feel of a vehicle notwithstanding your obvious dislike for FWD."
Several years ago, when Lexus introduced the GS400, they offered a 17" performance wheel and tire package. They ended up giving a lot of customers refunds and their 16" wheels and tires back. The GS suspension was too soft, the tires wore like crazy and the whole thing was an embarassment. A friend with a BMW M5 got more mileage out of his 18" tires than his mild mannered wife did out of their GS400.
So putting good rubber on a bad chassis is a waste of money. And putting a whole lot of money into tires on a FWD sedan that has a nose heavy weight distribution isn't much better, even if it has a good suspension (which the TL does).
I've never owned a BMW. But I subscribe to their claimed mantra that everything starts with the chassis and suspension. "Make it faster than the engine" or something like that. "Rubber" is the final element and an important one. But tires can only go so far in making up for engineering flaws or limitations on what they are attached to.
#70 of 403 Re: TL Sport sedan ? [z71bill]
Oct 13, 2006 (11:38 am)
"BTW a manual tranny and stiff suspension do not = sport car. My Nissan 4x4 PICKUP had both"
I would agree - but on the other hand, there is no such thing as a (real) sports car with a soft suspension and slushbox. Half full, half empty....
#71 of 403 tlhater & habitat1
Oct 13, 2006 (7:01 pm)
Like I said before - I hope you get what you want - but IMO WIN OR LOSE - you lose either way.
Your tires are worn out right? So are you driving around with worn out tires? Or - Did you park the car? Or what? - maybe drive around in another car and let your new Acura sit in the driveway! That must really be HURTING Acura.
What if it takes 3 months - or 6 months (or longer) to get this thing to go before a judge - do you just wait?
habitat1 - I know some think that a car must have a manual to be considered a sports car. I am not so sure - What is a BMW M6 or a Viper - or a Porsche 911 with an auto tranny? A family car?
#72 of 403 Re: tlhater & habitat1 [z71bill]
Oct 13, 2006 (8:25 pm)
I guess its just me....but a 6 speed in a sedan? OK, but why?
#74 of 403 Re: tlhater & habitat1 [meateater]
Oct 16, 2006 (11:10 am)
Well, for me, I enjoy telling a car when to shift.
I also feel that it enhances the car's ability in snow, extends my mileage per gallon, and I get exceptional life out of my brake pads.
I like driving a stick.
Yes, the TL is a sedan, but it's a lot of fun to drive, and even more fun with the stick.
I personally feel that the "Sequential SportShift" automatic is a joke.
I can slap the stick to downshift from 5th to 3rd, and I have enough time to sip my coffee before the car kicks in.
It's a gimmick for Auto-trans lovers. It downshifts when it wants and not when I tell it to, and downshifting doesn't help in slowing at all.
I think the stick shift offers more feel, control, and enhances the driving experience.