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Mainstream Large Sedans Comparison

6854 messages,  Last post on Jul 16, 2012 at 8:08 AM

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What is this discussion about? Buick Lucerne, Chevrolet Impala, Dodge Charger, Ford Taurus, Hyundai Azera, Toyota Avalon, Nissan Maxima, Pontiac G8, Car Comparisons, Sedan

Messages Page 681 of 686

#6794 of 6854 Re: Other Way Around. [aviboy97] by captain2

Nov 17, 2008 (4:41 pm)

Replying to: aviboy97 (Nov 17, 2008 2:21 pm)
It should, but it does not
and now you start talking about the influences of the trannies (and the gearing) in both cars. The Mazda has poorer FE despite putting out LESS HP, but equal acceleration. The only thing that might explain that - the gearing in the Mazda's 6AT is 'higher' than it effectively is in the CVT, and now you have something that would explain both the Mazda's poorer FE and it's similar acceleration despite giving up 20 something HP.
Have a sneaking suspicion that the marketing gurus over at Mazda wanted to perpetuate the 'zoom-zoom' thing although the 6.5 is somewha unremarkable these days - the CVT, of course, would argue against the 4DSC pretensions on the Maxima although it would help the FE.

#6795 of 6854 Re: Other Way Around. [captain2] by aviboy97

Nov 17, 2008 (5:11 pm)

Replying to: captain2 (Nov 17, 2008 4:41 pm)
and now you start talking about the influences of the trannies (and the gearing) in both cars
 
..something that is commonly neglected when talking about performance or fuel economy.
 
There is no doubt in my mind that Mazda sacrificed a few MPG's to get better performance numbers. Same can be said for Nissan and how they made a sacrifice.. They are promoting a "4 door sports car" with a 290hp engine when in fact their transmission of choice makes it's performance numbers suffer, but, have people say "26mpg and 290hp..not so bad!"....you are correct. It's all about marketing.

#6796 of 6854 Toyota Avalon by joshuag

Nov 17, 2008 (6:14 pm)

I personally think that Toyota needs to fix their transmission problems on their current Avalon before anyone should consider it. We have a Toyota Avalon Limited with 33,000 miles on it and we constantly need to take it back to the dealer to have the transmission "re-flashed," whatever that means. Our car is a 2006 and Toyota is still putting the same transmission in the car and refusses that there is a problem.

#6797 of 6854 Re: Toyota Avalon [joshuag] by captain2

Nov 18, 2008 (8:38 am)

Replying to: joshuag (Nov 17, 2008 6:14 pm)
Toyota needs to fix their transmission problems on their current Avalon
as an owner of an 05, I know exactly what you are talking about. Toyota has iundoubtedly taken a most aggressive approach to its transmission programming and likely one of the reasons why the Av's FE is superior. However, what you are perceiving as a transmission problem is not really a tranny problem at all, it is a programming problem, that undoubtedly is effecting the way the car responds to your 'commands', but is also something that is becoming a common problem with many many of these new fangled multi speed 'electronic' trannies including those on some of the cars in this group. Ford's 6 speed as it was originally in the 500 was noted and reviewed to be 'hesitant', as has Hyundai's, as has GM's, as has VW's etc etc.. It's kinda a condition of the breed that I would imagine will continue to be a problem as long as these mfgrs. chase the almighty mpg (as well as all the 'safety' features that can now be added with all the electronic/computer 'interference'). Not to excuse Toyota for its overly aggressive (IMO) programming or for that matter how they are handling it afterward, but the fact remains that the tranny (5 or 6 speed) itself has been rock solid and it is 'working as it was designed' as I'm sure your Toyota dealer has told you.
In my case I have 'learned' to drive the car as 'it' wants me to drive it, and on that basis it works just fine, in all respects. It has been over 2 years and 60000 miles since I remember any tranny delay or hesitation even happening, although I'm sure I can 'induce' the beahvior if I wanted to.
The whole concept of the car 'telling' us what it wants (and FTM making a decision (of sorts) on driver 'intent') does sound ridiculous, but I'm afraid is something that will get worse before it gets better, and is not at all uncommon. There are computer nerds somewhere that are definitely deciding how we should drive and what our individual capabilities are. Isn't technology wonderful?

#6798 of 6854 Re: Other Way Around. [captain2] by allmet33

Nov 18, 2008 (9:02 am)

Replying to: captain2 (Nov 17, 2008 4:41 pm)
Well...FE has never been Mazda's claim to fame, so it's not surprising that they are able to get a car with less HP scoot along with a car that weighs the same with more HP...Zoom Zoom baby!!!

#6799 of 6854 Re: Other Way Around. [allmet33] by captain2

Nov 18, 2008 (9:35 am)

Replying to: allmet33 (Nov 18, 2008 9:02 am)
allmet - I betting you're not old enough to remember - but many many years ago it was quite common to take these Detroit muscle cars and do things to them specifically to improve a 0-60 times, a quarter mile time, a top speed etc. etc.. First and usually foremost on the list were rear end transplants where final drive ratios were changed from a usually 'stock' number of about 3:1 to ratios of 5:1 or even 'higher'. Improved the heck out of 0-60 times, killed FE and top speed, of course. Didn't necessarily change the engine HP of course (we had other ways to do that) but did change FE and acceleration. In the current landscape of 'family' sedans that can easily best 7 seconds 0-60, the Mazda 6 we're talking about here seemingly needed to 'gear up' a bit to simply be able to run with everybody else.

#6800 of 6854 Re: Other Way Around. [captain2] by allmet33

Nov 18, 2008 (9:58 am)

Replying to: captain2 (Nov 18, 2008 9:35 am)
You're right, I was still in diapers around that time and my love for cars didn't really start until my teen years.
 
I do agree with you. It seems that Mazda, to keep up with their Zoom Zoom image, they're doing just that instead of following along with Toyota's blue print using DI and finding a good balance between power and gearing to offer great power and FE at the same time.
 
One thing I will say about the new 6, it sure looks slick!

#6801 of 6854 Re: Other Way Around. [allmet33] by captain2

Nov 18, 2008 (10:26 am)

Replying to: allmet33 (Nov 18, 2008 9:58 am)
well there are still a few of us around that were in diapers BEFORE they became disposable.
As a testimony to how far we have come - many of the cars on this group - call them family sedans or whatever, will easily run with many of those big V8 honkers of 40+ years ago - and consume half the gas doing it!

#6802 of 6854 Re: Other Way Around. [captain2] by allmet33

Nov 18, 2008 (10:35 am)

Replying to: captain2 (Nov 18, 2008 10:26 am)
LOL Indeed...you are right about that!!!

#6803 of 6854 Re: Other Way Around. [allmet33] by captain2

Nov 18, 2008 (10:38 am)

Replying to: allmet33 (Nov 18, 2008 9:58 am)
the mid 70s thru the 80s were the 'Dark Ages' of the automobile IMO, sorry if you had to live thru that, particularily if you love cars....

Messages Page 681 of 686

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