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Sedans Mainstream Large Sedans Comparison
6844 messages, Last post on Mar 23, 2009 at 12:32 PM
You are in the Sedans Forum. Your Hosts are pat & karens
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Replying to: captain2 (Nov 18, 2008 9:26 am) |
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Replying to: allmet33 (Nov 18, 2008 8:58 am)
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Replying to: captain2 (Nov 18, 2008 9:38 am) Okay, okay...before we get in trouble...back to the topic at hand! 
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Replying to: lmandrews (Nov 13, 2008 1:29 pm) |
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Replying to: captain2 (Nov 18, 2008 8:35 am) Don't forget Holly dual pumpers, high rise intakes, Hooker headers, dual point distributors, 4:11 rear ends, solid lifters,4 bolt mains,etc....I bought a new Z 28 in 1969...$3995 with a 5 yr/50k warranty....Gas was 0.28/gallon then...ran Sunoco 260 in that beast....as you mentioned earlier...many V-6's today can out perform and out run those old muscle machines... |
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Replying to: captain2 (Nov 17, 2008 12:23 pm) the better the acceleration times, not necessarily the torque." Obviously you've not driven any late model diesel powered vehicles recently. Take the E-320 CDI as an example. Maximum torque for this 3.0L motor is 400 ft-lbs from 1600-2400 rpms. Horsepower is only 210 at 3800 rpm. What this means is that almost all the time, it is within that maximum torque band. In other words, at most speeds it is almost always in the maximum torque range no matter what the speed. There is no need to down shift to accelerate faster as you must do with the 3.5L gasoline motor to gain maximum power and acceleration. The gasser has 268 horsepower, but not until 6000 rpm. Torque is much less at only 258 ft-lbs but not until 2400-5000 rpm. 0 to 60 mph for the 3.5L gasser is 6.5 seconds. The diesel 3.0L is only one tenth of a second slower at 6.6 seconds. With the diesel, there is maximum torque before you begin to move off the starting line, and if you are not careful, there is much wheel spin. I don't think the gasser will spin the tires at all. Now what happens when you are cruising at highway speeds and you want more acceleration as in wanting to pass? With the diesel, you simply tickle it slightly, and because you are already in the maximum torque range, you accelerate faster than the 3.5L gasser will do unless you floor the gasser and drop at least two or three gears. With the diesel, there is no need to floor it or downshift it at all. In fact, doing so might mean you would accelerate slower. Not only is the 3.0L diesel motor slightly smaller than the gasser (3.0L vs 3.5L) but it has an extra 142 ft-lbs torque (a 55 percent increase) and that is what makes it more powerful and at the same time, it gets a minimum of at least 25 percent better fuel economy while doing so. So much for the discussion of torque and acceleration. If the diesel were the of the same displacement as the gasser, the gasser would then be slower 0-60 compared to the diesel. Similar figures can be found while comparing the VW gas/diesel line. Also in the Dodge, Ford, Chevy/GMC pickup trucks line. Just wait until other maufactures bring their diesel powered vehicles to market. |
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Replying to: donna388 (Nov 18, 2008 8:42 pm) Maybe you'd like to explain why the VW TDIs have always (and continue) to be slugs relative to their gas engined bethren? Despite more of that precious torque, could it be that the diesel does not have the ability to turn into useable HP fast enough??? But, we do agree on one thing, the diesel should make a comeback, as soon as those technologies that make things like the CDI so good (and unobtrusive) can become available in less costly vehicles - until then we'll just have to 'put up' with the VWs, I guess. |
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Replying to: donna388 (Nov 18, 2008 8:42 pm) actually have, a MB ML320CDI SUV, and as I said it was quite remarkable and unobtrusive - in short, quite undiesel- like. The only thing that made it quite obviously a diesel - compression braking - when you let off the accelerator it's like you turned the car into a 100 mph headwind. Drivability has not generally been the diesels problem however because of all that low end torque as you say, acceleration, stink, and clatter - now those are things that should improve with these new generation 'clean' diesels as they become available. May continue to be a hard sell over here in the states though, too many folks remember those Oldsmobile 98s with that infamous 350 diesel.
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Replying to: captain2 (Nov 20, 2008 7:37 am) Audi Q7 3.0 TDi Test Drive and then you have this one as well... Audi 5.9 V-12 TDi |
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Replying to: captain2 (Nov 20, 2008 7:37 am) Are you saying a diesel has a lot of compression braking? Not without an exhaust brake. The air inlet on a diesel is wide open. No way to close it like a gas engine. So, very little compression braking. |
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