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Mainstream Large Sedans Comparison

6844 messages,  Last post on Mar 23, 2009 at 12:32 PM

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What is this discussion about? Buick Lucerne, Chevrolet Impala, Dodge Charger, Ford Taurus, Hyundai Azera, Toyota Avalon, Nissan Maxima, Pontiac G8, Car Comparisons, Sedan

#6799 of 6844 Re: Other Way Around. [allmet33] by captain2 Nov 18, 2008 (8:35 am)
Replying to: allmet33 (Nov 18, 2008 8:02 am) allmet - I betting you're not old enough to remember - but many many years ago it was quite common to take these Detroit muscle cars and do things to them specifically to improve a 0-60 times, a quarter mile time, a top speed etc. etc.. First and usually foremost on the list were rear end transplants where final drive ratios were changed from a usually 'stock' number of about 3:1 to ratios of 5:1 or even 'higher'. Improved the heck out of 0-60 times, killed FE and top speed, of course. Didn't necessarily change the engine HP of course (we had other ways to do that) but did change FE and acceleration. In the current landscape of 'family' sedans that can easily best 7 seconds 0-60, the Mazda 6 we're talking about here seemingly needed to 'gear up' a bit to simply be able to run with everybody else. Replies to this message: allmet33 (Nov 18, 2008 8:58 am) captain2 (Nov 18, 2008 9:26 am) allmet33 (Nov 18, 2008 9:35 am) captain2 (Nov 18, 2008 9:38 am) allmet33 (Nov 18, 2008 9:46 am) 101649 (Nov 18, 2008 1:18 pm)
#6800 of 6844 Re: Other Way Around. [captain2] by allmet33 Nov 18, 2008 (8:58 am)
Replying to: captain2 (Nov 18, 2008 8:35 am) You're right, I was still in diapers around that time and my love for cars didn't really start until my teen years.   I do agree with you. It seems that Mazda, to keep up with their Zoom Zoom image, they're doing just that instead of following along with Toyota's blue print using DI and finding a good balance between power and gearing to offer great power and FE at the same time.   One thing I will say about the new 6, it sure looks slick! Replies to this message: captain2 (Nov 18, 2008 9:26 am) allmet33 (Nov 18, 2008 9:35 am) captain2 (Nov 18, 2008 9:38 am) allmet33 (Nov 18, 2008 9:46 am)
#6801 of 6844 Re: Other Way Around. [allmet33] by captain2 Nov 18, 2008 (9:26 am)
Replying to: allmet33 (Nov 18, 2008 8:58 am) well there are still a few of us around that were in diapers BEFORE they became disposable. As a testimony to how far we have come - many of the cars on this group - call them family sedans or whatever, will easily run with many of those big V8 honkers of 40+ years ago - and consume half the gas doing it! Replies to this message: allmet33 (Nov 18, 2008 9:35 am)
#6802 of 6844 Re: Other Way Around. [captain2] by allmet33 Nov 18, 2008 (9:35 am)
Replying to: captain2 (Nov 18, 2008 9:26 am) LOL Indeed...you are right about that!!!
#6803 of 6844 Re: Other Way Around. [allmet33] by captain2 Nov 18, 2008 (9:38 am)
Replying to: allmet33 (Nov 18, 2008 8:58 am) the mid 70s thru the 80s were the 'Dark Ages' of the automobile IMO, sorry if you had to live thru that, particularily if you love cars.... Replies to this message: allmet33 (Nov 18, 2008 9:46 am)
#6804 of 6844 Re: Other Way Around. [captain2] by allmet33 Nov 18, 2008 (9:46 am)
Replying to: captain2 (Nov 18, 2008 9:38 am) Well...I was born in 70 and my love of cars picked up around the mid-80's. My first love...Porsche 928!!!   Okay, okay...before we get in trouble...back to the topic at hand!
#6805 of 6844 Re: Why purchase a Kia Amanti [lmandrews] by notsofast2 Nov 18, 2008 (12:44 pm)
Replying to: lmandrews (Nov 13, 2008 1:29 pm) What type of problem did you have with seats. I have a new Azera, and the seat will not keep its program. While driving, or when the car is left overnight, the seat changes position. Did you have any resolution? Thanks
#6806 of 6844 Re: Other Way Around. [captain2] by 101649 Nov 18, 2008 (1:18 pm)
Replying to: captain2 (Nov 18, 2008 8:35 am) Capt2   Don't forget Holly dual pumpers, high rise intakes, Hooker headers, dual point distributors, 4:11 rear ends, solid lifters,4 bolt mains,etc....I bought a new Z 28 in 1969...$3995 with a 5 yr/50k warranty....Gas was 0.28/gallon then...ran Sunoco 260 in that beast....as you mentioned earlier...many V-6's today can out perform and out run those old muscle machines...
#6807 of 6844 Re: Other Way Around. NO! [captain2] by donna388 Nov 18, 2008 (8:42 pm)
Replying to: captain2 (Nov 17, 2008 12:23 pm) "In itself and as a measure of any car's ability to accelerate, the higher the HP the better the acceleration times, not necessarily the torque."   Obviously you've not driven any late model diesel powered vehicles recently.   Take the E-320 CDI as an example. Maximum torque for this 3.0L motor is 400 ft-lbs from 1600-2400 rpms. Horsepower is only 210 at 3800 rpm. What this means is that almost all the time, it is within that maximum torque band. In other words, at most speeds it is almost always in the maximum torque range no matter what the speed. There is no need to down shift to accelerate faster as you must do with the 3.5L gasoline motor to gain maximum power and acceleration. The gasser has 268 horsepower, but not until 6000 rpm. Torque is much less at only 258 ft-lbs but not until 2400-5000 rpm. 0 to 60 mph for the 3.5L gasser is 6.5 seconds. The diesel 3.0L is only one tenth of a second slower at 6.6 seconds. With the diesel, there is maximum torque before you begin to move off the starting line, and if you are not careful, there is much wheel spin. I don't think the gasser will spin the tires at all. Now what happens when you are cruising at highway speeds and you want more acceleration as in wanting to pass? With the diesel, you simply tickle it slightly, and because you are already in the maximum torque range, you accelerate faster than the 3.5L gasser will do unless you floor the gasser and drop at least two or three gears. With the diesel, there is no need to floor it or downshift it at all. In fact, doing so might mean you would accelerate slower. Not only is the 3.0L diesel motor slightly smaller than the gasser (3.0L vs 3.5L) but it has an extra 142 ft-lbs torque (a 55 percent increase) and that is what makes it more powerful and at the same time, it gets a minimum of at least 25 percent better fuel economy while doing so.   So much for the discussion of torque and acceleration. If the diesel were the of the same displacement as the gasser, the gasser would then be slower 0-60 compared to the diesel.   Similar figures can be found while comparing the VW gas/diesel line. Also in the Dodge, Ford, Chevy/GMC pickup trucks line.   Just wait until other maufactures bring their diesel powered vehicles to market. Replies to this message: captain2 (Nov 19, 2008 8:25 am) captain2 (Nov 20, 2008 7:37 am) allmet33 (Nov 20, 2008 7:41 am) rminor (Nov 20, 2008 3:45 pm) donna388 (Nov 20, 2008 5:57 pm) lightfootfl (Nov 24, 2008 6:56 am) and 2 more...
#6808 of 6844 Re: Other Way Around. NO! [donna388] by captain2 Nov 19, 2008 (8:25 am)
Replying to: donna388 (Nov 18, 2008 8:42 pm) the CDI is a remakable achievement, it comes in a $50k car and also a notable exception - my god, a diesel that's 'driveable' (and reasonably quick). The only other diesel that even approachs the CDI is one BMW (540td) is putting in cars in Europe. But, not a valid point, if you want to talk about the relative power of diesels vs. gas engines then look at something a lot more common and accessible, not $50 or $60k cars. Maybe you'd like to explain why the VW TDIs have always (and continue) to be slugs relative to their gas engined bethren? Despite more of that precious torque, could it be that the diesel does not have the ability to turn into useable HP fast enough??? But, we do agree on one thing, the diesel should make a comeback, as soon as those technologies that make things like the CDI so good (and unobtrusive) can become available in less costly vehicles - until then we'll just have to 'put up' with the VWs, I guess.

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