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Sedans Mainstream Large Sedans Comparison
6844 messages, Last post on Mar 23, 2009 at 12:32 PM
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Replying to: captain2 (Sep 08, 2008 6:40 am) Captain... that reminded me of a situation I ran into when I was shopping for my Avy back in 2006. There are 2 Toyota dealerships in my town and naturally I went to the one closest to my home. As my wife and I were getting out of the car we were greeted by a very nice, but dumb as a rock, young salesman.. he asked us if he could help us and I said yes, point me in the direction of your Avalons.. he reply was, and I quote " Avalons, who makes them" ( hence my "dumb as a rock comment ) I just thanked him for his time, got back in my car and drove across town to "the other dealer". Now how stupid is that? Roland |
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Replying to: captain2 (Sep 08, 2008 1:26 pm) To some people, this makes a difference, others not. To me it does and will sway a sale all else being equal.
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Replying to: kdshapiro (Sep 09, 2008 4:27 am) My own observations seem to confirm that the Korean car lots must be the 'training' ground for the future 'stars'  of the car world. After all, it takes no talent special knowledge or ability if all you know how to do is sell price- which is about the worst reason to buy anything, IMO.
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Replying to: captain2 (Sep 08, 2008 1:26 pm) As far as the dealer in Ulsan, you have think about where it is and the mind set of those folks they cater too...a $40K car to them is a Toyota Corolla to us, that being said...they won't look at anything less, thus that is why it is Genesis only. Heck, I don't think they even look at anything with FWD to be honest!!! Concerning dealerships focusing on the cheapness of the cars...it's not all dealers that make that mistake. There are plenty that know how to sell a car, it's just unfortunate that there's a lot that don't. I also think that many sales people rely on the fact that more and more folks are coming into the dealership already knowing about the car so they feel less inclined to get to know the product they are selling...and fail. The dealership I go to has a guy that's been a part of Hyundai from the beginning and he knew everything about the Genesis before it even got to the dealership. He was the same way with the Azera, which is why I passed on the '06 Sonata and waited for the Azera to show up. Funny how folks think Hyundai's sales will hurt and yet, the company keeps climbing the charts in terms of automaker standings. I'm beginning to wonder what the ratio of good Hyundai dealerships to bad Hyundai dealerships really is. If my area is an indication, it would be like 5 to 1 (good/bad). With those odds, Hyundai will be successful.
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Replying to: allmet33 (Sep 09, 2008 6:37 am) It's not hard to climb when you're sales are horrible. I think Hyundai, in a way is trying to say the car is worth every penny of the $40K they are asking by putting stuff out there like, pulling more G's cornering & better braking than a BMW 5-Series I don't know if you know it, but the 5 series does not excel in every performance aspect. With the exception of consumer reports, the 550 is the benchmark sedan because overall it's does everything exceptionally. So touting a car stops shorter than the 5 series is not a big deal. Saying it has no fade after 10 hard stops like the 550 would be a big deal. (Genesis showed fade). But then again there is a huge price difference between the two and I would expect exemplary engineering from a $60K car. Saying the Genesis has most of the features of a 550i at 60% of the price is like owning a replica of the Cullinan diamond and believing it's the exact same thing.
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Replying to: kdshapiro (Sep 09, 2008 6:47 am) Actually...poor sales equate to poor product, right? Not to mention the past that Hyundai is overcoming. Their current spot on that chart puts them over many other automakers that are supposedly better. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm... I know the 5-Series doesn't excel in every performance aspect, but the fact that OVERALL...BMW is known for putting out performance based vehicles. The fact that a Hyundai can be compared in ANY way, shape or form speaks volumes for an automaker that couldn't even be compared to a Toyota 10 years ago. You're absolutely right about the brake fade and therein is the difference between paying that $60K price vs. $40K. However, how many situations will come up that brake fade will be an issue? Neither car will be raced by the average daily driver, right? Honestly...a non issue. Who in the world makes 10 hard stops in a row under daily driving situations??? Actually....SAYING the Genesis has most of the features of a 550i at 60% of the price isn't like anything...it's stating a fact. Now if they said that the Genesis performed almost like the 550i at 60% of the price, now your statement would make sense. The biggest thing folks forget is in the end, we're talking about a Hyundai and I think that's what gets everyone all riled up. If Toyota/Honda/Nissan made a car (of the same class) that could hang with the 550i, it would be no big deal. However, none of them do, yet...Hyundai does and it's blasphemous to some. I mean, did everyone think that no other car company could come along and actually make a really good car and give buyers the opportunity to have a car that has what some premium sedans have at a fraction of the price...and be legitimate? This really is just too funny to me. Folks just can't stand the fact that their beloved Japenese and German cars are getting competition from....Korea, of all places!!!
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Replying to: allmet33 (Sep 09, 2008 7:11 am) and those same folks are and will continue to show such allegiances as they choose to spend that extra money for that 550 or whatever. In fact it is these same folks that expect and want to spend the extra money to get things that are truly superior. The Koreans, whether you want to admit it or not, have a lot further to go before they can even approach the degree of cohesive sophistication, intent and purpose found in many of those German and high end Japanese makes. And its a whole lot more than a ludricrous comparison of some spec sheets - something that those same Koreans seem to have difficulty understanding.
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Replying to: allmet33 (Sep 09, 2008 7:11 am) One can make any comparison at all in the world. On these boards a Honda S2000 has been compared to a Ferrari. Is that a legit comparison, sure. Are they equals? Maybe. Do they evoke the same feelings? No. The G35 when it came out was a 5 series beater also. Forget the 3 series, it rocketed past the 3 series and was a 5 series beater. So yes, one can make any statement at all.
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Replying to: captain2 (Sep 09, 2008 10:42 am) I'm not sure the Koreans goal is to duplicate the sophistication, intent and purpose of the premium brands. That being the case, the would be charging much more for their cars. The idea is to provide a level of sophistication, intent and purpose that closely rivals the premium brands and make the same affordable to the likes that would normally not be able to afford it. I think everyone is losing sight of what the real purpose is. There is no way possible for Hyundai to duplicate the likes of a Benz, Bimmer or any other premium sedan without using the same quality components and not charge more. Hyundai's niche is providing value based vehicles and that they do very successfully. Folks just can't accept that the hight end Hyundai is just as good as a mid-level offering from a premium brand. I think THAT is the point that's being missed. With the likes of the Azrea and the Genesis, everyone is wanting Hyundai to be more than it really is and it won't happen. They don't want to be BMW, Benz, Lexus or Infininti, they want to be Hyundai. The fact that they benchmarked premium sedans when creating the Genesis just means that...benchmarked. They found a way to provide the consumer with something similar to a premium brand sedan without having to pay the premium dollar. What's so difficult to understand about that? Does the Genesis outperform certain vehicles in certain categories...yes it does. Does it mean anything...well, it depends on who's watching. So the Genesis can pull more G's in a turn, I understand that aspect alone doesn't mean a thing because the overall driving dynamic isn't there to give it the feel the BMW does. |
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Replying to: kdshapiro (Sep 09, 2008 10:54 am) Comparing the S2000 to a Ferrari can evoke the same feelings depending on who's listening. To the ricers out there...they'll get all orgasmic talking about the S2000 and look blank when mentioning the Ferrari. Talk to those of the Euro ilk and they'll bust a gut laughing when you mention the S2000 to them...so to be honest, it depends on crowd my friend. I had never heard of the G35 being the 5-Series beater. Hmmmmmmmm....
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