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Mainstream Large Sedans Comparison

6844 messages,  Last post on Mar 23, 2009 at 12:32 PM

You are in the Sedans Forum. Your Hosts are pat & karens

What is this discussion about? Buick Lucerne, Chevrolet Impala, Dodge Charger, Ford Taurus, Hyundai Azera, Toyota Avalon, Nissan Maxima, Pontiac G8, Car Comparisons, Sedan

#6540 of 6844 Re: On a side-note... [louiswei] by thegraduate Jun 25, 2008 (8:19 am)
Replying to: louiswei (Jun 25, 2008 8:15 am) I am sure you'll be fine driving it (again, not live with it) with the seat all the way back.   Attempted it at the car-show - wasn't a fit for me. TRUST ME.   Oh by the way, if Jeremy Clarkson can fit in an IS then you can too...   Um, no, I can't. Replies to this message: jontyrees (Jun 25, 2008 10:17 am) thegraduate (Jun 25, 2008 10:23 am) jontyrees (Jun 25, 2008 10:36 am) and 3 more...
#6541 of 6844 Re: On a side-note... [jontyrees] by captain2 Jun 25, 2008 (9:10 am)
Replying to: jontyrees (Jun 24, 2008 5:51 pm) and you can check Intellichoice as well. Both the Ford and the Impala will rank very close to the Toyota despite the Toyota's initial cost hit of (at least) $4 or $5k, these 'cost-to-own' stats generally assumming a 5 year time span. Both Edmunds or Intellichoice could not know at any given time what lengths a specific manufacturer has to go thru to sell cars and therefore as you note can not guesstimate rebates/financing deals that might effect that TCO. BUT, if a $28k Taurus starts selling for $21k (or whatever) it is also true that those folks that bought the car for more than that are gonna take a hit on their resale values, minimizing the effect of those rebates on the 'cost-to own'. On the other side of the coin, if the Toyota (in this case) continues to sell well at some number closer to window sticker, it makes for a stable vehicle value now and later and likely a lower cost to own. Simple economics and not rocket science - but as a rule: cheap now = cheap later - and vice versa Replies to this message: thegraduate (Jun 25, 2008 9:24 am) jontyrees (Jun 25, 2008 10:31 am) captain2 (Jun 25, 2008 11:34 am)
#6542 of 6844 Please folks by pat HOST Jun 25, 2008 (9:11 am)
Toyota has one entry in this category. Let's stick to it in this topic.
#6543 of 6844 Re: On a side-note... [captain2] by thegraduate Jun 25, 2008 (9:24 am)
Replying to: captain2 (Jun 25, 2008 9:10 am) Indeed. The way we're looking at it is that we're getting a lot more car (a comparable Toyota would have been over $30k, and as you say, they don't come much from sticker) for the money in the first place. If the resale value down the road is worth $8,000 less than the Avalon's, then they've laid out less up front, have had more cash to play with and invest, and still had a car that they don't feel like they've "settled" for in the least. $30k wasn't in the budget; heck, $25k wasn't either since they have no trade-in. This ruled out the more expensive up-front models, meaning to go with an import they'd have to come down in size and features (think Accord LX with hubcaps, or similar) to get a similar price to the Taurus with Leather and options.   I see what you're saying, I'm just explaining why that didn't necessarily work here. It wasn't an option.   I was curious and did a TCO of the Avalon XL and Taurus SEL - here's what I came up with. After five years:       Depreciation $14,828 Financing $4,488 Insurance $8,689 Taxes & Fees $3,650 Fuel $12,938 Maintenance $3,976 Repairs $665          TOTAL $49,234   For the Taurus, 5 years:   Depreciation $14,519 Financing $4,047 Insurance $6,805 Taxes & Fees $3,305 Fuel $13,251 Maintenance $3,214 Repairs $794          TOTAL  $45,935   So, based on our friend the captain's little tool, the TCO here on Edmunds, the Taurus is cheaper to own over 5 years to the tune of about $3,300. Something my parents noticed was the fact that insurance on the Taurus is insanely cheap. That is reflected here as well.   EDIT: Sorry Pat, hopefully this post is back on track.
#6544 of 6844 Re: On a side-note... [thegraduate] by jontyrees Jun 25, 2008 (10:17 am)
Replying to: thegraduate (Jun 25, 2008 8:19 am) I saw Jeremy Clarkson fit into a 1950's 50cc engined single seat car, 54" long, on Sunday evening. Where there's a will, there's a way........ Replies to this message: thegraduate (Jun 25, 2008 10:23 am) jontyrees (Jun 25, 2008 10:36 am) thegraduate (Jun 25, 2008 10:38 am) brucelinc (Jun 26, 2008 10:51 am) and 1 more...
#6545 of 6844 Re: On a side-note... [jontyrees] by thegraduate Jun 25, 2008 (10:23 am)
Replying to: jontyrees (Jun 25, 2008 10:17 am) I have seen that episode, but we're really going back off-topic with that, so let's not for our friend Pat's sake.   I was looking over those TCO numbers again. I had assumed our captain was right about the numbers being the same, but in reality, the Taurus IS the cheaper car to own according to this, but a sizeable margin. Sure there are different factors here, but hey, I'm not who started the TCO topic! Replies to this message: jontyrees (Jun 25, 2008 10:36 am) thegraduate (Jun 25, 2008 10:38 am) brucelinc (Jun 26, 2008 10:51 am) thegraduate (Jun 26, 2008 10:53 am)
#6546 of 6844 Re: On a side-note... [captain2] by jontyrees Jun 25, 2008 (10:31 am)
Replying to: captain2 (Jun 25, 2008 9:10 am) Obviously, the higher the rebate up front, the lower the likely resale value will be. However, even if a $4k rebate up front results in a $4k hit to resale value, (unlikely, but just say it does), on a purely financial basis, you're still better off due to the lower financing cost. Now, if the Avalon actually depreciates less in total $, that's a different matter, and at some point, offsets the lower financing cost. Not rocket science either, just basic discounted cash flow analysis, (substitute discount rate for my example of financing cost)   BTW - my bad - I typo'd earlier. My Taurus was $22.9k before TTL, not $21.9k, and I also added a $300 window tint. Replies to this message: captain2 (Jun 25, 2008 11:34 am)
#6547 of 6844 Re: On a side-note... [thegraduate] by jontyrees Jun 25, 2008 (10:36 am)
Replying to: thegraduate (Jun 25, 2008 10:23 am) I spent a ton of time comparing TCOs on a variety of vehicles before making my decision - not just using the Edmunds side-by-side comaprisons, but playing with my own revised assumptions. Probably spent more time on it than the savings were worth! Nah, I get off on that stuff - it's pretty much what I do for a living.   Back to topic - does the Taurus transmission "learn" from the drivers habits? Seems like mine is starting to become more responsive on downshits - maybe just loosening up. Replies to this message: thegraduate (Jun 25, 2008 10:38 am) brucelinc (Jun 26, 2008 10:51 am) thegraduate (Jun 26, 2008 10:53 am)
#6548 of 6844 Re: On a side-note... [jontyrees] by thegraduate Jun 25, 2008 (10:38 am)
Replying to: jontyrees (Jun 25, 2008 10:36 am) Not that I'm aware of; that'd be a question for a veteran owner, not a soon-to-have-one-in-the-family guy like me.
#6549 of 6844 Re: On a side-note... [jontyrees] by captain2 Jun 25, 2008 (11:34 am)
Replying to: jontyrees (Jun 25, 2008 10:31 am) the extra financing costs for the more expensive car are certainly relevant but also something that is always included in these published TCO figures - and therefore something that the more expensive car must overcome (in resale value) if it is to have a similar (or better ) TCO. Resale remains the mist important single factor in cost to own - but also a factor that declines in importance if you happen to be one of those few that drives anything until the wheels fall off.

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