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Mainstream Large Sedans Comparison

6844 messages,  Last post on Mar 23, 2009 at 12:32 PM

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What is this discussion about? Buick Lucerne, Chevrolet Impala, Dodge Charger, Ford Taurus, Hyundai Azera, Toyota Avalon, Nissan Maxima, Pontiac G8, Car Comparisons, Sedan

#6392 of 6844 Re: Taurus vs Azera observations [jaymagic] by captain2 Jun 03, 2008 (12:46 pm)
Replying to: jaymagic (Jun 03, 2008 12:22 pm) the miles to empty does not readjust up, the display simply stays where it is Avalon is the same, but my wife's 5 year old Altima OTH does 'adjust up'. One other thing that I'd like to see changed on the Avalon, the 'average MPG' resets itself every time you fill up and sometimes will even reset itself when it 'thinks' it's getting filled up - gas sloshing around in the tank or parking on a slope. Makes it impossible to keep track of FE on a long multiple fill-up trip - unless you do it manually. Have found the computer FE to generally be closer than the calculated method, especially if I'm not the one 'breaking the rules' and filling the gas up the filler neck.
#6393 of 6844 Re: Taurus vs Azera observations [captain2] by louiswei Jun 03, 2008 (12:47 pm)
Replying to: captain2 (Jun 03, 2008 12:36 pm) why - if it (the FSE) is supposedly more efficient are the FE ratings lower for the IS than it is for the Avalon   Different tuning and almost 40 extra hp (268 vs 306). The FSE is tuned for performance driving and FE is tuned for smoothness and efficiency.   why wouldn't Toyota put the DI in the Avalon and increase the FE advantage it already has in this class?   Cost my captain, cost!!   'double-Vanos'   I think double VANOS is about the intake valves like Honda's i-VTEC and Toyota's i VVT. I was talking about the fuel injecting technology, those two are totally different animals. Actually the DI technology is nothing new, it has been used on diesel engines since like forever, it has been used on gasoline engines earlier too but only becomes popular recently. However, so far I don't know what other engine(s) uses the duel injection technology like Toyota did with the 2GR-FSE. Replies to this message: captain2 (Jun 03, 2008 1:06 pm) louiswei (Jun 03, 2008 1:13 pm) captain2 (Jun 03, 2008 1:48 pm)
#6394 of 6844 Re: Taurus observations? [snaglepus] by captain2 Jun 03, 2008 (12:52 pm)
Replying to: snaglepus (Jun 03, 2008 12:38 pm) 75 mph will be 2241 RPM    80 mph will be 2391 RPM   now we are getting a bit more technical aren't we? These numbers BTW almost identical to what I see in my Avalon BTW and what I would guess is very typical for these drivetrains.Had a hard time with 80mph at 2000 rpm!
#6395 of 6844 Re: Taurus vs Azera observations [louiswei] by captain2 Jun 03, 2008 (1:06 pm)
Replying to: louiswei (Jun 03, 2008 12:47 pm) Cost my captain, cost!! I'm sure it is not free - however I'm sure you've probably read the articles about the development of the 2GR and also know that Toyota is saving literally billions of dollars making a far better engine then before. If I remember right something to the tune of a grand saved PER ENGINE - you wouldn't think a set of Nippondenso injectors would even approach that? Replies to this message: louiswei (Jun 03, 2008 1:13 pm) captain2 (Jun 03, 2008 1:48 pm)
#6396 of 6844 Re: Taurus vs Azera observations [captain2] by louiswei Jun 03, 2008 (1:13 pm)
Replying to: captain2 (Jun 03, 2008 1:06 pm) you wouldn't think a set of Nippondenso injectors would even approach that?   The primary disadvantages of direct injection engines are complexity and cost. Direct injection systems are more expensive to build because their components must be more rugged -- they handle fuel at significantly higher pressures than indirect injection systems and the injectors themselves must be able to withstand the heat and pressure of combustion inside the cylinder.   Source: Direct Fuel Injection   Looks like it's not just a set of Nippondenso injectors...     Replies to this message: captain2 (Jun 03, 2008 1:48 pm)
#6397 of 6844 Re: Taurus vs Azera observations [carolinabob] by captain2 Jun 03, 2008 (1:19 pm)
Replying to: carolinabob (Jun 03, 2008 4:46 am) Not to mention the extra 750 for Southeastern Toyota and the 700 "ToyoGuard" fabric and exterior protection   if it makes you feel any better - Gulf States down here in Texas does the same thing (GST and SET are the only 2 independent Toyota distributors left apparently) - and it STILL is almost impossible to find an Avalon down here without that kinda extra markup in it and that's after the car has been available for more than 3 years. A testament to how well the car sells perhaps but a definite disadvantage when dealing with those that are so conscious of initial prices.
#6398 of 6844 Re: Taurus vs Azera observations [captain2] by dborth Jun 03, 2008 (1:46 pm)
Replying to: captain2 (Jun 03, 2008 12:36 pm) "speaks volumes about the techinical superiority of the 2GR".   Perhaps you should create a 2GR Forum.
#6399 of 6844 Re: Taurus vs Azera observations [louiswei] by captain2 Jun 03, 2008 (1:48 pm)
Replying to: louiswei (Jun 03, 2008 1:13 pm) like it's not just a set of Nippondenso injectors...    yep from the sound of this article its a set of really high quality injectors - and a few extra lines in a computer program. Still not convinced that DI doesn't cost a bit of gas though - understanding of course that a IS350 better damn well be geared differently than a 'mere' Avalon. One of these cars can do so much more than the other , can't it?
#6400 of 6844 Re: Taurus vs Azera observations [captain2] by batista Jun 03, 2008 (4:48 pm)
Replying to: captain2 (Jun 03, 2008 12:36 pm) I was surprised to see BMW have to resort to turbocharging in the new 335 though, simply to produce the same sort of naturally aspirated power you have in your IS already. Guess that in itself speaks volumes about the techinical superiority of the 2GR   The BMW 335i has a 3.0L engine and has 300 lbs/ft of torque 1400 rpm while the Lexus 3.5L has 2774800 rpm. Plus, the BMW 335i is under-rated with having 300HP after some have found out after taking the car to a dyno where it was rated at 300 RWHP. Replies to this message: captain2 (Jun 04, 2008 5:39 am) alexstore (Jun 04, 2008 6:40 am)
#6401 of 6844 Vehicle Award by dborth Jun 03, 2008 (11:56 pm)
Source: Hyundai News   HYUNDAI AZERA NAMED A CONSUMERS' TOP RATED SEDAN BY EDMUNDS.COM   FOUNTAIN VALLEY, CALIF., 05/29/2008 The 2008 Hyundai Azera was awarded the “Consumers’ Top Rated Vehicle Award” in the $15,000 - $25,000 sedan category by Edmunds.com’s visitors. The 2008 Azera received the average highest rating from the site’s audience as of April 30, 2008.   “This recognition further reinforces our brand philosophy on how smart consumers think about premium sedans,” said Scott Margason, national manager, Product Development at Hyundai Motor America. “Clearly, the Azera raises the bar by combining safety, luxury and value like no other vehicle in its segment. Consumers who want full-size sedan features, a smooth and powerful engine and a comfortable ride will be pleased with the Azera.”   Edmunds.com tabulated the results for 21 award categories by evaluating the feedback of thousands of site visitors. Awards were given for coupes, convertibles, sedans, wagons, SUVs, trucks, minivan/vans and hybrids. Edmunds.com’s editors agree that Azera is a great choice for consumers looking for a family sedan with luxurious touches at an affordable price.   More and more customers are discovering the Hyundai Azera’s advantages. Enhanced design and convenience features, together with a comprehensive standard active and passive safety technology package, render the 2008 Azera a solid alternative to vehicles like the Lexus ES350, Toyota Avalon and Nissan Maxima. Spacious and luxurious, the Azera features more interior volume than more expensive luxury sedans, such as the Mercedes Benz E-Class and BMW 7-Series. Couple this with its continued accolades from independent automotive studies across the board and there’s no question that Azera is one of the smartest premium large sedan choices available in the American marketplace today.

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