- #6273 of 6844
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Re: Not sure how to look at it... [allmet33]
by tjc78
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May 12, 2008 (10:50 am)
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Replying to: allmet33 (May 12, 2008 8:21 am)
I live in Southern NJ right outside Philly. I really don't see that many. More so than a few months ago, but I guess I expected more. Think early/mid 90s, they were everywhere. Heck I even had one... (or should I say I shared ownership the service department at Echelon Ford  )
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- #6274 of 6844
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Re: Not sure how to look at it... [allmet33]
by captain2
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May 13, 2008 (5:53 am)
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Replying to: allmet33 (May 12, 2008 8:21 am)
Beauty, in some cases, in the eye of the beholder and whoever is doing the research. If FoMoCo for example is using JDP (and its variety of changeable 'made to fit' award definitions) then sure you can get me to NOT believe anything. OTH although the Fusion in particular has been doing very well and certainly the equal of the current Camry in regards to reliability - the balance of the Ford line (including the 500/Taurus) is unremarkable. Hyundai has much the same situation with the Sonata doing relatively well while the rest of the line has its worts. The problem for the Toyotas of the world is more likely that the buyer of a Toyota/Honda (and even Nissan to a lesser degree) EXPECT that superior reliability comes with the nameplate (and indeed spend more for it) , and it becomes headlines when one doesn't (like when CR makes the news for removing the Camry from its 'automatically' recommended list)- as opposed to some other manufacturers in this group that it becomes headlines when one does!
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- #6275 of 6844
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Re: Not sure how to look at it... [captain2]
by allmet33
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May 13, 2008 (6:06 am)
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Replying to: captain2 (May 13, 2008 5:53 am)
I can understand if Ford as a whole was doing that much better, but to base it on the success of t he Fusion and the Edge...that seems crazy! I can further understand if the commercial were about one vehicle, like the Fusion and they said that it equalled the quality of the Camry, but they way they are making it seem...that Ford, as a whole, rivals Toyota...as a whole. While I can say that Ford has greatly improved their products, it would be a stretch for me to cast them in the same quality "pool" with Toyota.
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- #6276 of 6844
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Re: Not sure how to look at it... [allmet33]
by captain2
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May 13, 2008 (6:27 am)
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Replying to: allmet33 (May 13, 2008 6:06 am)
just like 'comparos' that might 'hint' that a Sonata is comparable to a BMW 5 series - Ford can also make whatever claims it might want based on whatever it wants even if it is ONLY considering the Fusion - it is things like this that advertising campaigns feed on.
I, for one, will believe Ford's claims once it shows me the same sort of reliabilties etc. LINE wide and probably as confirmed by some organization that is not in it for the money...
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- #6277 of 6844
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Re: Not sure how to look at it... [captain2]
by tjc78
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May 13, 2008 (6:37 am)
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Replying to: captain2 (May 13, 2008 6:27 am)
probably as confirmed by some organization that is not in it for the money...
Does one really exist??
On another note a colleague had a Dodge Charger rental recently with the 2.7 V6.... it had so little power that he argued with me it was a 4cyl. It just makes me wonder why on Earth they even put that engine in that car. Must be for the fleets.
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- #6278 of 6844
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Re: Not sure how to look at it... [captain2]
by allmet33
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May 13, 2008 (6:41 am)
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Replying to: captain2 (May 13, 2008 6:27 am)
There YOU go again. Hyundai never brought quality into play when they made the comparisons they made. They made factual statements that can be backed up and proven. However, to jump out and say that your company has jump from quality obscurity to quality superiority, equal to the likes of Toyota!!! Now THAT would be the same if Hyundai had said, the Sonata offers you the performance of a 5-Series for much less...even I would laugh at that. They just said it had more ponies under the hood, which...is a factual statement (depending on which 5-Series you look at). As far as what you might imply from that...I guess it depends on if you look at the sky as being partly cloudy or partly sunny.
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- #6279 of 6844
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Re: Not sure how to look at it... [allmet33]
by captain2
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May 13, 2008 (7:19 am)
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Replying to: allmet33 (May 13, 2008 6:41 am)
if Hyundai had said, the Sonata offers you the performance of a 5-Series for much less...
But isn't that indeed what they DID say - something about the HP/acceleration compared to a 528 if I recall correctly., not to mention other claims about interior space etc - something that would technically be true if they were comparing the BMW to a minivan! The reason I mention Hyundai's ads specifically is that they (like these Ford claims) strain any reasonable definition of creditability and really just need to be laughed at. They both could use a new advertising agency.
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- #6280 of 6844
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Re: Not sure how to look at it... [allmet33]
by louiswei
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May 13, 2008 (7:22 am)
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Replying to: allmet33 (May 13, 2008 6:41 am)
They just said it had more ponies under the hood, which...is a factual statement (depending on which 5-Series you look at).
Yeah, that a fact but a useless one just like when I say that I am taller than Chris Paul...
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- #6281 of 6844
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Re: Not sure how to look at it... [captain2]
by allmet33
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May 13, 2008 (7:25 am)
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Replying to: captain2 (May 13, 2008 7:19 am)
No Captain...they only said the Sonata had more horsepower...that's it. Also...about interior space...again, substantiated facts. Why are you throwing a mini-van in the mix? The 5-Series is a mid-sized sedan, just as the Sonata is...therefore, comparing interior space between the two is appropriate. You've just got a hang up on the fact that Hyundai chose the BMW to compare it to!
Hyundai used factual information in their comparisons, where as Ford is making a claim that is substantiated by what?
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- #6282 of 6844
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Re: Not sure how to look at it... [louiswei]
by allmet33
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May 13, 2008 (7:28 am)
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Replying to: louiswei (May 13, 2008 7:22 am)
Yeah, that a fact but a useless one just like when I say that I am taller than Chris Paul...
Depends on who is looking at the information. If you were a point guard in the NBA, then it would mean something. The Sonata and 528 are mid-size sedans, with a huge price gap between the two. Simply put...Hyundai simply said you can get a mid-sized sedan with more horsepower and more interior space than a 5-Series for MUCH less.
So...since you don't play in the NBA...you're right, the information is useless.
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