Last post on Jul 16, 2012 at 7:08 AM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Buick Lucerne, Chevrolet Impala, Dodge Charger, Ford Taurus, Hyundai Azera, Toyota Avalon, Nissan Maxima, Pontiac G8, Car Comparisons, Sedan
#615 of 6854 Why The Hate on The Crown Vic?
Dec 27, 2006 (2:50 pm)
What is the stone age aspect of the chassis - is it the 4 channel ABS, or the 4 wheel dual piston disc brakes? Perhaps the traction control, or the ABS?
I know - it must be the 56% front/44% rear weight distribution, since that is not 53/47 like the Dodge Charger.
Of course, it is the fact the Crown Vic has a real frame. I'm waiting for the first time my local police tries to push a car out of traffic using a Dodge Charger (wait, none of my local police have yet to buy a Charger - they must enjoy getting stuck in the snow with the Crown Vic.) My township police just ordered their fleet for 2007 - bought 4 more Crown Vics.
I've driven a Grand Marquis for years in the snow - never much of a problem. On especially bad days (once or twice a year), I put about 300 lbs of sand in the trunk, and take it out when it's not needed. Or one could go with winter tires - tons of used steel wheels available if that is your thing.
The real issue is women (such as my wife) are intimidated by driving in the snow, so they think front wheel drive is better. Even with her Toyota, I've lost count how many times she's gotten stuck trying to pull into and up the driveway in the snow. I have to get the little fella up the drive for her.
#616 of 6854 Re: Why The Hate on The Crown Vic? [jsylvester]
Dec 27, 2006 (2:58 pm)
What kind of gas mileage are you getting on that Grand Marquis? I owned a Grand Marquis for about 18 months and I'm glad I don't own it with today's gas prices. Add 300 pounds of concrete blocks and it would be even worse. I was not at all impressed with the car. The interior was very sad. I'm glad you enjoy yours.
#617 of 6854 Re: Why The Hate on The Crown Vic? [jsylvester]
Dec 27, 2006 (3:23 pm)
it's a car that rightfully belongs back in the 70s where it came from - would further suggest to you that if it wasn't for the muncipalities and corporations, it would have been gone long ago. Ford had announced closing of the Town Car plant (in Cleveland, if I remember right) only so that they could move that production to where the CVs and GMs are made - in Canada. The thing is not even an American car anymore, despite still possessing all those questionable attributes that made "Detroit" what they have become - non-competitive in the car business. The Crowne Vic is the problem not the solution.
All that said, however, still do see a lot of them (without sirens) attached, so there must still be those out there that will buy 30 year old cars new. Do I hate CVs, no - just think they are slow and ponderous, space inefficient, lacking of any current technologies/safety features, and gas guzzlers.
#618 of 6854 Re: Why The Hate on The Crown Vic? [captain2]
Dec 27, 2006 (3:57 pm)
Well - at least you have reasons for your opinion.
In every car I've driven, I've always come in at right about 90% of the average of the EPA city and highway mileage. After my 1994 Grand Marquis, I had a 2000 Dodge Intrepid rated 18/26 that got about 20 mpg - my current 2002 Grand Marquis rated at 17/25 gets around 19 mpg - mostly commuting in rush hour traffic 36 miles round trip from the suburbs to the middle of downtown. If that is gas guzzling, than my Intrepid was a gas guzzler as well. The Corolla gets around 28 mpg in the same driving (I've driven it for a tank of gas to compare), so I don't think it does that badly.
Some of the attributes you might dislike are what I like about the car - ponderous to you might be smooth, quiet, with good road isolation to me, lack of technology means long, dependable, inexpensive operation to me. I'm assuming by technologies you mean no head curtain airbags or stability control - it has the others that I can think of, whether I wanted them or not.
Heck, I'd like to dump the ABS, autodim mirror, and the autotemp climate control on my next one - all kind of gimmicky to me. I'm on the fence about traction control.
It could use some updates, but if an example of updating is the Mercury Montego - I'd rather not that Ford ruins the car by trying to improve it.
We just have different tastes, which luckily can both be filled in the current marketplace. If Ford drops the platform, I guess I'll have to buy used, as they do last a very long time, which is why you see them everywhere.
#619 of 6854 Re: Why The Hate on The Crown Vic? [jsylvester]
Dec 28, 2006 (4:28 am)
As for the safety aspect of the car, I know someone who rearended a bus in a 98 Marquis at over 40 MPH and walked away with only slight burns from the airbags. The car of course is in the big junkyard in the sky!
Ford has done its best keeping the car as modern as possible, especially considering a chassis that I believe dates back to 1980. The newer versions handle OK with the rack and pinion steering and updated suspension. However, they just can't compete with the newer designs. Now, if ford dumped in the 5.4 V8 from the Navigator, independent rear suspension, 18" Rims, and some bucket seats, we could have competition for the HEMI, LOL.
#620 of 6854 Re: Why The Hate on The Crown Vic? [jsylvester]
Dec 28, 2006 (6:24 am)
jsylvester- actually drove CVs, back in the 80s, company cars, of course, each to about 100k - both got me about about 15 mpg overall (about half what I get on my Avalon), and did walk away from a broadsider when an idiot ran a light. Neither car had any major mechanical issues either. My real issue with cars like the CV is that it perpetuates the "American" automakers problems, falling back on 50 year old designs and not building anything really competitive or innovative in the segment. Despite how much I like my Avalon, and respect Toyota for using about as much American parts/labor in it as possible, I still wish it could have a truly American brand nameplate. Don't like the idea of buying things like CVs etc. and effectively putting Americans out of work.
And I don't think you need to worry about the CV disappearing anytime soon, if 100,000 unit sales is a benchmark of sorts for a 'successful' model then Ford will continue to beat the bejeepers out of that just with police car sales. And even it they do take it off the market, there is still the 300 - a traditional RWD design with many of those features that should be in the CV, had Ford wanted to. There should always be a market for the traditional American V8 big sedan, they do have some advantages and well as disadvantages.
#621 of 6854 Re: No U.S. cars? [captain2]
Dec 28, 2006 (11:33 am)
U.S. cannot compete with some other nations in carmaking because it is way too expensive to design and manufacture a car in the U.S.
The government here has taxed and regulated businesses and citizens so much here that carmaking is not a profitable business any longer. The only way car companies make money in the U.S. these days is in their finance divisions.
It's a shame. But not a surprise.
#622 of 6854 Re: No U.S. cars? [joe131]
Dec 28, 2006 (11:40 am)
And this is why the foreign car makers have all established plants that manufacture imports here in the U.S.???
I think the problem lies in global sales. I really don't think that the Big 3 U.S. makers sell that well in the global market...compared to the foreign auto makers.
Dec 28, 2006 (11:51 am)
Yes, foreign carmkers, but not all of them. Not U.S. carmakers. U.S. carmakers are busy shutting down plants here and building them in China.
Foreigners have plants here because the U.S. makes credit so easy almost anyone can buy a new car. But it is all with borrowed $.
So the cars are made here close to the customers who will "buy" them.
The profits go back to Japan.
#624 of 6854 Re: U.S. [joe131]
Dec 28, 2006 (11:58 am)
The major ones do...Toyota & Honda and even Hyundai has a plant here in the U.S. Doesn't seem to affect them!
The profits may go back to Japan, but they are still subject to the same taxes as the doemestic plants.