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Sedans Mainstream Large Sedans Comparison
6844 messages, Last post on Mar 23, 2009 at 12:32 PM
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Replying to: louiswei (Mar 19, 2008 1:49 pm)
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an interesting question since both manufacturers are coming out with similar 'efforts' at a 'poor man's BMW - which company is perceived to make a better car and therefore might stand a better chance of succeeding with it? IMO, probably Pontiac and not because of quality perceptions - more like that Pontiac is generally accepted as a source of performance cars (the numbers would indicate that the Pontiac V8 should blow the doors off of the Genesis) , whereas I think Hyundai has got a battle on its hands in terms of quality and/or performance car perceptions.
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Replying to: captain2 (Mar 20, 2008 5:59 am) The Genesis OTOH is trying more to be a luxury car that happens to be fast. Until proven otherwise I don't think this car will be a handler. In the 3.8 form will be plenty fast and would think FE #s in the 18/28 range. As for the V8 they will sell some, but I will be willing to bet the 3.8 is the volume model. As for quality perceptions I would say Hyundai and Pontiac are about equal here..... which to say isn't that great.
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Replying to: captain2 (Mar 19, 2008 5:48 am) Captain, to paraphrase Forrest Gump: I may not be an intelligent man, but I do know what torque steer is. Which is why, if you re-read my original post, I mentioned my wife's CR-V specifically to provide a comparative context for my evaluation of torque steer in my '92 Maxima. "I guess you must be hoping that Hyundai gets around to putting that pumped up 3.8 in the Azera... If you really want to feel and 'fight' a little torque steer, go out and find a vintage Saab 9-3 Viggen, turbo 4 banger, and more of a handful than a Impala SS or any Nissan product ever thought of being. Or drive the current Aura XR, a little less of the same stuff." Yes, I agree, anyone who reads Car and Driver knows that. I never said I was in favor of torque steer. You're raising a red herring argument here. "You can as many HP as you want, BTW, and Hyundai may develop some sort of 'cure' that successfully hides all that a high school physics book would teach you - but something that still won't change: you'll still have 60% or your over the driven front wheels and the car will still be a plowing understeering nightmare. Not to worry though you might finally get a car that can 'outdrag' even that Impala. I hate to think that the evaluation of any car has sunk to the depths of how many HP it has - because it is only a small part of what a good car is - especially in this class." I don't recall ever saying anything to the effect that I was extolling the virtues of an overpowered, torque-steering FWD car either. Where do you get these straw men I didn't say? And why? All I ever said was that I can definitively rebut your claims about "serious torque steer issues" in the 190-horsepower 1992 Maxima by virtue of having driven a well-maintained example this morning. Feeling a little defensive?
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Replying to: tjc78 (Mar 20, 2008 6:38 am)
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Replying to: colloquor (Mar 20, 2008 7:06 am) |
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Replying to: tjc78 (Mar 20, 2008 6:38 am) Comparing FE to another GM full-size car, the Pontiac looks really good FE wise. If the 360+ hp Pontiac has 15/24, consider that the 197 hp Lucerne has 16/25, and the 275 hp Lucerne has 15/23. 250 hp Charger has 17/24, and the 340 hp Charger has 15/23 255 hp Maxima has 19/25 224hp Grand Marquis has 15/23  Suddenly, the Pontiac doesn't look so bad with that 24 hwy number, does it? 
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Replying to: thegraduate (Mar 20, 2008 7:09 am)
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Replying to: allmet33 (Mar 20, 2008 7:13 am)  ) it would make the Northstar obsolete. I think just the 6-speed auto would help!
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Replying to: thegraduate (Mar 20, 2008 7:09 am) 
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