Last post on Jul 16, 2012 at 7:08 AM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Buick Lucerne, Chevrolet Impala, Dodge Charger, Ford Taurus, Hyundai Azera, Toyota Avalon, Nissan Maxima, Pontiac G8, Car Comparisons, Sedan
#5886 of 6854 Re: Torque Steer in Maxima [tonycd]
Mar 19, 2008 (5:48 am)
Sir, as chance would have it, I own the 190-horsepower 1992 Nissan Maxima
well, then, you have a great car, I got almost 300k on mine before the tranny cratered at which point the $3500.00 to fix the tranny was more than the car was worth. The tranny failure BTW probably due to my own neglect.
However, if you don' think that car has some torque steer issues then I would respectfully suggest that you may not know what it is. It was worse then what it is in my wife's 03 Altima 10 years later, despite the extra 50hp - any test of older or recent Maximas and V6 Altimas will generally always mention this.
As far as the ability to 'engineer out' torque steer - sure it's been happening for years and the difference between the TS in the 92 Maxima vs. the same condition 11 years later in that Altima is a good example. I guess you must be hoping that Hyundai gets around to putting that pumped up 3.8 in the Azera - I would wager they won't and further would guess that they may compromise an otherwise good drivetrain if they do. The key word here is 'may' - but IMO 290 hp engines do not belong in FWD cars and logically the stronger the engine the worse the problem - but there is no 'magic number'- simply too many things that go into it.
If you really want to feel and 'fight' a little torque steer, go out and find a vintage Saab 9-3 Viggen, turbo 4 banger, and more of a handful than a Impala SS or any Nissan product ever thought of being. Or drive the current Aura XR, a little less of the same stuff.
You can as many HP as you want, BTW, and Hyundai may develop some sort of 'cure' that successfully hides all that a high school physics book would teach you - but something that still won't change: you'll still have 60% or your over the driven front wheels and the car will still be a plowing understeering nightmare. Not to worry though you might finally get a car that can 'outdrag' even that Impala. I hate to think that the evaluation of any car has sunk to the depths of how many HP it has - because it is only a small part of what a good car is - especially in this class.
#5887 of 6854 Re: New Maxima [allmet33]
Mar 19, 2008 (5:52 am)
as I said, it is because the CVT can be programmed to higher gears ratios relative to the throttle position. My wifes 03 Altima (or that '92 Max) doesn't have either the type of tranny or the electronically controlled throttle that would allow the Nissan engineers to successfully hide it.
#5888 of 6854 Re: New Maxima [tjc78]
Mar 19, 2008 (6:11 am)
TJC- think the CVT is 'programmed' to simulate gear changes hence 'justifying' the paddle shifter - something I find kinda amusing. The 290 hp doesn't surprise me, Nissan not known to lose the HP wars.
#5889 of 6854 Re: New Maxima [captain2]
Mar 19, 2008 (6:27 am)
Exactly the point I've been trying to make. The same can be employed with the new Maxima using the 3.7 tuned to about 285 hp. Again, is it the desired configuration...no. Would it work...yes. That...is all I'm saying.
#5890 of 6854 Re: New Maxima [captain2]
Mar 19, 2008 (6:55 am)
Never understood the need to "simulate" anything. If this vehicle is to be the "4DSC" again put in a regular auto. I just don't think the enthusiasts are going to be happy with it. Actually, I can already hear the auto mags bitching there is no manual transmission.
Having said that.... when Avy is ready to go back I will be test driving the Max and will try not to be so tunnel visioned with the CVT. I hated it in the 500, but that was with an anemic engine. Maybe, the "simulated" shifts along with the "manual" capabilities will be enough to overturn my aversion to CVT
Nissan not known to lose the HP wars.
Since they started the whole thing... it wouldn't be right for them to be at the back of the pack.
#5891 of 6854 Live Photo
Mar 19, 2008 (7:34 am)
Not a pretty picture...
#5892 of 6854 And it would seem...
Mar 19, 2008 (7:55 am)
that Nissan chose the later of my suggested possibilities and yet...exceeded the hp I thought they might (290 hp!!!) squeezing 20 more ponies out of the 3.5. The fact that they are employing the CVT would most likely indicate that it will be a FWD sedan as none of the RWD Infiniti sedans use CVT, right?
2009 Maxima Quick Specs
#5893 of 6854 Re: New Maxima [allmet33]
Mar 19, 2008 (10:47 am)
I think the real difficulty here is that - you have a different definition of what 'works'.
#5894 of 6854 Re: New Maxima [captain2]
Mar 19, 2008 (11:05 am)
There's no difficulty at all, I guess my definition is one that Nissan agrees with as well.
Like I said, I agree with you in that it isn't the desired configuration one would want to see in order for the Max to be a true sport sedan, but it is what it is and the only thing you can do about it complain about the TS, complain about the FWD and ultimately...not buy one. None of which, will stop Nissan from selling them.
#5895 of 6854 Re: New Maxima [tjc78]
Mar 19, 2008 (11:13 am)
hated it in the 500, but that was with an anemic engine
that would be an understatement - the problem is I'm not sure that the 3.5 isn't still, other than at least, now its producing a reasonable number of horses as it 'grinds' away.
This, IMO, is a major problem with CVTs, driving one - the computer interprets your intent (like how fast you want to accelerate) by how hard and fast you hit the accelerator and then will set a 'gear' (more properly a 'gear ratio' ) that will best accomplish what it thinks you intend. In actual practice, after you hit that accelerator, the engine will seemingly stay at some relatively high rpm while the gear ratios continually change behind it. The car seems to be continually 'catching up' and a very non traditional feeling. No rev up- shift/rev up-shift like we all grew up with. The reason I think it was such a tough sell in the 500 is because if you are going to use a CVT that you had better also have an engine that sounds (and feels) happy at those higher rev ranges. The VQ, OTH, is a great engine that IMO is beginning to gray slightly - in applications (like in the M, for example) where the engine is really asked (thru tranny gearing) to put out, it too starts to also feel a bit 'strained'. I worry about 290hp out of the VQ especially in combination with a CVT. The Maxima is, after all, the Nissan semi-lux flagship.We'll see.