- #5870 of 6844
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Re: New Maxima [allmet33]
by tjc78
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Mar 18, 2008 (11:02 am)
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Replying to: allmet33 (Mar 18, 2008 10:05 am)
Right, cause if you change the Max to RWD and pump it north of 300 hp...it will be selling pretty close to $40K.
Quite possibly correct.. however IF the Max was to go RWD w/ the 3.7 I'll bet a paycheck the M35 would quickly become the M37!
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- #5871 of 6844
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Re: New Maxima [captain2]
by tjc78
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Mar 18, 2008 (11:06 am)
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Replying to: captain2 (Mar 18, 2008 10:08 am)
Hasn't happened yet - so I wonder if there aren't some sort of efficiency 'limits' within the current bounds of technology
May be on to something here... I think part of the reason the 2GR is so efficient is mostly due to engine design, but also tranny programming geared for economy, and Toyota does know how to shave off the pounds.
I know I am verging OT but I am stunned that Honda had to resort to cylinder deactivation in the new Accord to help with the FE #s
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- #5872 of 6844
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Re: New Maxima [tjc78]
by allmet33
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Mar 18, 2008 (11:18 am)
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Replying to: tjc78 (Mar 18, 2008 11:02 am)
I think that's the next logical step since the G already has the 3.7.
Then again, they can leave the 3.5 in the Max and squeeze it for another 15 hp and leave it at that. Does the Max necessarily have to go to RWD if they go with the 3.7? Why can't it be toned down to 285 hp?
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- #5873 of 6844
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Re: New Maxima [allmet33]
by captain2
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Mar 18, 2008 (11:42 am)
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Replying to: allmet33 (Mar 18, 2008 11:18 am)
if the current Maxima has some TS issues at 255 hp (or whatever) why should 285 or 300 hp be anything but more difficult? Part of the reason why I believe that TS is not such a problem with Avalons/Azeras has to do with the relative softness of the chassis compared to a typical Maxima as well as some rather conservative tranny programming. Same applies for the Lucerne Northstar. The one 'advantage' the Maxima might actually have is the CVT - which I think is more dependent on computer programs than your typical geared tranny.Therefore HP/torque to the front wheels can be minimized more easily simply thru selection of a higher 'gear'. Have read that in the new Altima, TS is not nearly the 'problem' that it is in my wife's 03 3.5SE, for example - with 30 less HP - but also with a 'traditional' 4 spd AT (and less computer 'interference').
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- #5874 of 6844
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Re: New Maxima [captain2]
by allmet33
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Mar 18, 2008 (11:48 am)
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Replying to: captain2 (Mar 18, 2008 11:42 am)
Ummmmmmmmmmmm...why not leave the torque where it's at, then the TS doesn't get any worse, right?
So...if they go with the CVT in the Max, it's possible to see something close to 300 hp in a FWD car, right?
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- #5875 of 6844
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Re: New Maxima [allmet33]
by captain2
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Mar 18, 2008 (12:05 pm)
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Replying to: allmet33 (Mar 18, 2008 11:48 am)
there already is 300hp in a FWD car it's called an Impala, from a short test drive it sounds, feel, and is 'mean' - potentially a real handful since little is done to counter the TS but also exhilarating to some that like such things . The Acura TL-S at 286 HP handles the TS problem by simply limiting throttle engagement when the computer reads that 1) you are accelerating hard and 2) the front wheels aren't straight. That being the case, I say 'what's the point' - if the 'computer' is not going to let me use all that HP then why pay for it?
There are and have been many FWD cars over the years that TS has been an issue - some with substantially less power than what we're talking about here, things have improved. I had a 92 Maxima that had some serious torque steer and 'only' about 190 hp. So its not all about any specific amount of power causing the problem, there are design issues like suspension geometries etc involved as well.
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- #5876 of 6844
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Re: New Maxima [captain2]
by allmet33
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Mar 18, 2008 (12:12 pm)
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Replying to: captain2 (Mar 18, 2008 12:05 pm)
Which is a point I argued before, but still was shot down that a 300 hp FWD sedan could exist.
I'm sure Nissan could do a better job than Chevy did!
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- #5877 of 6844
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Re: New Maxima [allmet33]
by captain2
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Mar 18, 2008 (12:39 pm)
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Replying to: allmet33 (Mar 18, 2008 12:12 pm)
no, the point is NOT to challenge the laws of physics and if we are going to insist on 300hp sedans then put the drive wheels in the right place. There is a lot more to a 'good' well engineered sedan than simply how many HP it has or how fast it might accelerate in a straight line. The Impala, IMO, is a good example of that - a typically 'Detroit' solution to a problem - put a V8 in it when they can't (or don't want to) make the appropriate V6s.
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- #5878 of 6844
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Re: New Maxima [captain2]
by allmet33
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Mar 18, 2008 (12:52 pm)
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Replying to: captain2 (Mar 18, 2008 12:39 pm)
I understand the argument that it may not be the BEST arrangement, but it CAN work as Chevy has shown us. If an American company can do it...I know one of the import big guns can do it better...don't ya think?
Honestly, I think Nissan is about to prove that it can be done, however...until hard facts come out, we can only speculate what will be.
I agree that it may not be the best configuration, please don't think I'm contending that point. I'm simply saying that it may be possible for Nissan to take Chevy's idea and make it work better.
TS can be a problem, but it usually is only a problem when one mashes on the gas pedal. I've never seen a situation where TS is a problem under normal driving situations. Even with the cars that have TS issues, it's not such a problem that it's yanking control out of the driver's hands and causing accidents. It's a price to pay to have the benefits of FWD and get the power some want available in RWD cars.
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- #5879 of 6844
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Re: New Maxima [allmet33]
by captain2
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Mar 18, 2008 (1:07 pm)
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Replying to: allmet33 (Mar 18, 2008 12:52 pm)
why do you suppose that GM in response to the successes that are the 300/Charger and the redesigned Mustang went to Australia to find the 'answers'.? Maybe because 1) it was cheaper for them (GM good at that) and 2) that they understand you don't put 361hp through any of those existing cars they had available. Even Hyundai understands this: whatever you think the Genesis might be: blue collar Bimmer or a competitor in this class, it is also recognition on Hyundai's part that a 'proper' sedan like this is RWD. The G8 is already starting to receive naturally rave reviews from the enthusiast mags, I would bet that the new Camaro will do the same - both cars 'could be' 300+ HP and FWD - but they are not and really could never be.
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