Last post on Jul 16, 2012 at 8:08 AM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Buick Lucerne, Chevrolet Impala, Dodge Charger, Ford Taurus, Hyundai Azera, Toyota Avalon, Nissan Maxima, Pontiac G8, Car Comparisons, Sedan
#5767 of 6854 Re: Avalon vs. Azera Throwdown: Azera Test Drive [captain2]
Mar 12, 2008 (8:15 am)
A few years??? LOL The Max hit the scene in '84. However, you're right...2002 is when Nissan dropped the bombshell of the 240 hp 3.5 V-6 Altima that seemed to be the start of the HP wars. Even at that point...the fact that the Maxima had 15 more ponies...it was a different animal. However, when the Altima got refreshed in '05...it surpassed the Maxima in terms of power and performance, and it probably equalled it in terms of technology. In terms of size...the two were pretty much the same..so how could one call the Maxima the flagship anymore? Yeah...they better do something good with it, that's for sure.
#5768 of 6854 Re: Maxima engine NVH question [tonycd]
Mar 12, 2008 (8:24 am)
As you observed Nissan has geared the Infiniti quite differently than they do the Max and FE suffers - but supposedly helps a big car with a bit more spunk. Maintaining a modicum of performance, I suppose, but at 300 hp I think the VQ is being strained a bit. I thought the same of the G35 MT, and that was 3 years ago - haven't tried the 3.7 liter variant.
One thing about CVTs though, if you are going to use one, you better also have an engine that is happy at higher rpms. Fords/Volvo's CVT in the original 500 was a dismal failure because that 3.0 liter engine that came with it besides being down on power was also something not real pleasing at 5000 rpm or so. The new Altima is geared to lower engine speeds and holds the same 2000 rpm or so at 70 that most of the other cars in this group do. Maybe also the reason why the Altima FE is competitive. I still don't understand Nissan's apparent dedication to the CVT - although it has been successful for them - it is interesting that they don't use it in the high end Ms, although I would bet it may be the only tranny available on the new Maxima.
#5769 of 6854 Re: Avalon vs. Azera Throwdown: Azera Test Drive [allmet33]
Mar 12, 2008 (8:36 am)
they better do something good with it, that's for sure
IMO, the Maxima has always been a competitive selection in this group, power wise, FE wise, and even size/option level wise. CR has it rated #2 in this group - and it deserves it. A helluva nice car and a different kind of ride for a vehicle in this group. The Altima is, of course, rated at the top of its particular segment and you can certainly contend that two vehicles are quite similar - but the Maxima in terms of perception and reality is definitely still the 'flagship'.
#5770 of 6854 Re: Avalon vs. Azera Throwdown: Azera Test Drive [captain2]
Mar 12, 2008 (8:48 am)
In terms of being the flagship, it is only that because the Max has always been. However, it's been harder and harder to look at it as such with the current Altima as it is. Perceptions, as they may be, have started to change on the Maxima when folks can get everything and more in the Altima. It's not like one would give up much in terms of interior space, right (they are pretty darn close in those terms)?
The Maxima, in it's current form, is still very competitive amongst the others in this segment (a point I'm not arguing at all). However, if it is upgraded to truly be the Nissan flagship...will it exceed the competition? Maybe, just maybe...the Altima would slide up and compete with the Avalon, Azera, etc. and the Maxima will compete with the Genesis, G8, etc. Maybe???
#5771 of 6854 Re: Avalon vs. Azera Throwdown: Azera Test Drive [allmet33]
Mar 12, 2008 (9:32 am)
the Altima sells very very well (200000/year) as a competitor in what is probbaly the toughest segment to succeed in. And they do it without pumping their sales numbers too much thru the fleet dept. Why would they want to reposition it? The Avalon sold extremely well when it first came out in 05 but its sales have been poached a bit by the Camry XLE V6 and to some extent the ES. The point being that the Altima should be expected to rob a little from the Maxima - but it also works in reverse - I'm thinking that it is possible to get a current Max for less than a full boat Altima. Happens all the time, you don't think that Sonata buyers are tempted by the Azera, or vice versa? Those cars are also of similar size, now they can even share the same 3.3 liter drivetrain, and is not like that a 'loaded' Sonata isn't available for less money than the Azera. From pictures, it appears that the 09 Sonata interior etc. has been upgraded enough that the lines of differentiation are blurred even more - just like as you say - there might be no reason to buy a Azera or a Maxima..
#5772 of 6854 Re: Avalon vs. Azera Throwdown: Azera Test Drive [captain2]
Mar 12, 2008 (9:43 am)
IF...the Altima were slightly larger inside to compete...the sales would be the same, it would still be what it is. If the Altima can compete with the Maxima, it could certainly compete with the other Maxima comptetitors, right?
Azera buyers end up in a Sonata, if for any other reason, they can't afford the Azera. I can't say that everyone that has gone in to buy an Azera ended up with one, some may feel that they can accept a little less power, slightly less room and still get the same amenities and pay less and be happy.
With the Maxima...that doesn't happen. Someone goes in to look at a Maxima and when they see the Altima and what it offers...they're going to feel cheated if they were to get a Maxima (at this point)...I know I would. The Maxima offers nothing that you can't get in the Altima, so yeah...you can get a Maxima for less than an Altima, but which one is the more desireable of the two? In comparing the Azera and Sonata...if you go with the 3.3 V-6...well, the Sonata will win out because the base model Azera offers next to nothing. However, the fully loaded Sonata can't touch the fully loaded Azera and the pricing is justified. The same can't be said of the Maxima/Altima and thus...that is why you probably can get a loaded Max for less than a loaded Altima, but again...which would be the more desirable option?
#5773 of 6854 Re: Avalon vs. Azera Throwdown: Azera Test Drive [allmet33]
Mar 12, 2008 (10:04 am)
interesting fact. Both Nissan and Toyota only use their best engine in flagships. why is it that Azera has 3.3? is this really a flagship?
plus Allmet there are minor details that separate Altima and Max
#5774 of 6854 Re: Avalon vs. Azera Throwdown: Azera Test Drive [allmet33]
Mar 12, 2008 (10:07 am)
Well...in a lot of cases, it's about choosing the right unit.
Well, in my case none of the after market head unit would fit because even without the GPS screen my car has a fully integrated center stack. It does look good but definitely offers less option for non-OEM upgrades.
#5775 of 6854 Re: The Captain2 Experience [allmet33]
Mar 12, 2008 (10:13 am)
"Captain...with all due respect (please don't think I'm attacking you or anything), your posts do have a certain "air" about them sometimes."
Says the pot to the kettle. You've LMAO'd so many times at other people's comments it's a wonder you have one left....
#5776 of 6854 Re: Avalon vs. Azera Throwdown: Azera Test Drive [allmet33]
Mar 12, 2008 (10:29 am)
is why you probably can get a loaded Max for less than a loaded Altima,I betcha I can do the same with a Sonata/Azera right now - there is only about a $2000.00 difference betwenn the two MSRP (30 vs 32k) , and because the Azera is now the 'old' model and the Sonata 'new'. I'm guessing the drive out price is going to be close to the same. Now whether you think the Azera is somehow 'worth' the extra money, that is something that is physically or objectively hard to justify - the same situation that currently exists between the 'new' Altima vs the ''old' Maxima.