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Sedans Mainstream Large Sedans Comparison
6844 messages, Last post on Mar 23, 2009 at 12:32 PM
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Replying to: captain2 (Feb 07, 2008 1:47 pm) BINGO!!
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Replying to: allmet33 (Feb 07, 2008 2:10 pm) More specifically - cheaper! Toyota increased their HP ratings about 30% with the 2GR as well as improving the FE about 10% and that would be the 'base' 2GR-FS. It is also said that they are spending $1000.00 less PER engine PER car. A remarkable achievement if you think about it, that translates literally into $ billions. FWIU the engine is built in MISSOURI. You don't suppose that Toyota is feeling any guilt putting that extra money in their pockets do you?  IMO Ford would have been better off 'junking' the 'Duratechs' - but it was sure a lot cheaper to simply modify the old 3.0. GM has been hanging onto decrepid old pushrod V6s longer than you've been alive. So now we have a competitively powerful Ford engine that has many of the refinement issues that the old 3.0 has had for many years and an engine IMO that not only trails those Toyota/Nissan engines but also the efforts by that Korean' upstart' that you like to talk about so much. . |
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Hyundai doesn't have a 3.5, nor a 3.6, get it right please. The 3.3L produces 264hp The 3.8L produces 290hp The 4.6L produces 375hp Again, keep in mind the Genesis gets the second generation of its new engines. As evident in the 09 Sonata, its base engine not only gets a good bump in hp, it now achieves best-in-class MPG; ditto on the V6 engine, with gains in hp, and in the top of the pack as far as fuel efficiency is concerned. This is the trend the Genesis will be going, the engines will not be carried over from the Azera.
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Hyundai does not make a 3.6L V6 engine. GM makes the 3.6L V6. The Hyundai V6 engines are 3.3L and 3.8L. According to Hyundai's official press release, the Genesis 3.3L V6 is rated at 264 HP, using 87 octane unleaded. The Genesis 3.8L V6 is rated at 290 HP, also using 87 octane unleaded. Adding direct injection (as in the IS350 and CTS engines) appears to give V6 engines a gain of between 30 to 40 HP. Given direct injection, then, the Genesis' 3.3L should jump up to around 295 to 305 HP, and the 3.8L should jump up to around 320 to 330 HP. I wouldn't be surprised if at least the 3.8L got DI within a couple years. |
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Replying to: joe97 (Feb 07, 2008 7:20 pm) 
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Replying to: joe97 (Feb 07, 2008 7:20 pm)  However...Hyundai did produce a 3.5...go back and look at the '04-'06 Santa Fe and the '02-'05 XG350 had it. What do you mean the engines won't carry over from the Azera...the 3.8 going into the Genesis is the one from the Azera.
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Replying to: louiswei (Feb 07, 2008 2:22 pm) 2 mpg is hardly a huge difference. It's really the result of an average because not every Avalon driver will see the same FE that you may see. Just as not every Azera owner will see the same FE. Different locations, different elevations, different terrain...different drivers. When everything is averaged out...there's really no big difference one way or the other. Now maybe you need to hold on to that 2 mpg, just to justify to yourself the point you steadfastly stand behind...that the Avalon is a superior car. The Avalon is indeed a very good car with lots of history behind it. Again, and again....and yet again...the only thing I've said is that the Azera is, and will continue to be...a viable option and strong competitor for the Avalon. However, I do like how you switched gears after being shown it would take 15 years to see the savings in terms of that FE...how it's not about money, but rather engine efficiency. Okay...for the sake of the argument, you're absolutely right...Toyota's 3.5 is more efficient than the Hyundai 3.8 simply because they get more hp out of .3 less liters. Does that make you feel better now? |
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Replying to: allmet33 (Feb 07, 2008 1:22 pm) not this year - power per unit volume is 76.6 HP/liter on the Toyota BASE 2GR and 69.2 hp/liter on the Azera BASE 3.8. More than a 10% difference to which you can also add another 10% or so for a FE difference. BTW I was checking the physical staTs on the Max/Avalon/Azera this morning in the CR 08 Auto Issue. Curb weights are listed as 3545/3600/3845 respectively - a 300 lb. difference relative to the Maxima. Makes some sense simply because the Nissan will outaccelerate the Azera - with LESS (rated) hp, and Hyundai has never been terribly good at buildings things light although I will grant you that the Maxima is the smaller car of the three. .
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Replying to: captain2 (Feb 08, 2008 7:01 am) The Azera is definitely the porker of the bunch. It's not secret that Hyundai still uses more steel in building their cars as the use of aluminum would drive the cost of the cars up. So...aluminum is only used where they deem critically necessary. In this case, for it to be 300 lbs heavier than a Max and over 200 lbs heavier than the Avalon...the acceleration numbers aren't that bad. If you shaved those lbs. The Azera would defintely be a bit quicker. Hyundai could build them lighter, but then...they would probably end up costing as much as the rival Toyotas, Hondas and Nissans. |
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Replying to: allmet33 (Feb 08, 2008 6:45 am)  The Lambda engines are the same in the Genesis but as second generations for the 3.3 & 3.8 The Azera will get the second generation when the next facelift is due; this was the case on the 09 facelifted Sonata that is making its way to dealers. |
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