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Mainstream Large Sedans Comparison

6844 messages,  Last post on Mar 23, 2009 at 12:32 PM

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What is this discussion about? Buick Lucerne, Chevrolet Impala, Dodge Charger, Ford Taurus, Hyundai Azera, Toyota Avalon, Nissan Maxima, Pontiac G8, Car Comparisons, Sedan

#5038 of 6844 Re: What about MPG? [allmet33] by captain2 Feb 07, 2008 (1:39 pm)
Replying to: allmet33 (Feb 07, 2008 1:19 pm) The only one that really was a dud in terms of growth was the 2.7. and you know that this is NOT basically the same engine? That's a question BTW because I don't know for sure. GM and Ford both took ~260 CI V8s and used the same block (and several other things) for 50 years now and in the process had the engine 'bored and stroked' out all the way to over 400 CIs and many many claimed 'gross' HPs. The Toyota 2GR started life as a 4 liter 'high torque' 'stroker' truck engine, reduced its size by shortening that 'stroke' and in the process and came up with the 3.5 which is now used across the entire product line. The Nissan VQ started life as a 190hp 3 liter V6 (late 80s I think) and the VQ35 might be used in even more Nissan/Infiniti vehicles than even Toyota has found for the 2GR Oft times what is new - really isn't. Replies to this message: allmet33 (Feb 07, 2008 2:10 pm) captain2 (Feb 07, 2008 2:50 pm)
#5039 of 6844 Re: What about MPG? [louiswei] by allmet33 Feb 07, 2008 (1:43 pm)
Replying to: louiswei (Feb 07, 2008 1:35 pm) Like I said...it would take a long time to cover that $3,000 in FE...15 years by your calculations!!!   Well...considering Toyota has been doing it for a longer period and Hyundai is playing catch up...I would say they are doing pretty good. Replies to this message: captain2 (Feb 07, 2008 1:47 pm) louiswei (Feb 07, 2008 2:22 pm) allmet33 (Feb 08, 2008 6:53 am)
#5040 of 6844 Re: What about MPG? [allmet33] by captain2 Feb 07, 2008 (1:47 pm)
Replying to: allmet33 (Feb 07, 2008 1:43 pm) and now you are not understanding what Louis is actually saying either - relative engine efficiencies is what he's talking about - not a few hundred dollars a year in fuel costs. Replies to this message: louiswei (Feb 07, 2008 2:22 pm) allmet33 (Feb 08, 2008 6:53 am)
#5041 of 6844 Re: What about MPG? [captain2] by allmet33 Feb 07, 2008 (2:10 pm)
Replying to: captain2 (Feb 07, 2008 1:39 pm) I guess that's called evolution. Easier to re-work something already in existence than to create something brand new.   In Hyundai's defense...they created the 3.8 as a brand new engine, so they need time to "evolve" it in their line up. Replies to this message: captain2 (Feb 07, 2008 2:50 pm)
#5042 of 6844 Re: What about MPG? [captain2] by louiswei Feb 07, 2008 (2:22 pm)
Replying to: captain2 (Feb 07, 2008 1:47 pm) relative engine efficiencies is what he's talking about - not a few hundred dollars a year in fuel costs   BINGO!! Replies to this message: allmet33 (Feb 08, 2008 6:53 am)
#5043 of 6844 Re: What about MPG? [allmet33] by captain2 Feb 07, 2008 (2:50 pm)
Replying to: allmet33 (Feb 07, 2008 2:10 pm) Easier to re-work something already in existence More specifically - cheaper! Toyota increased their HP ratings about 30% with the 2GR as well as improving the FE about 10% and that would be the 'base' 2GR-FS. It is also said that they are spending $1000.00 less PER engine PER car. A remarkable achievement if you think about it, that translates literally into $ billions. FWIU the engine is built in MISSOURI. You don't suppose that Toyota is feeling any guilt putting that extra money in their pockets do you? IMO Ford would have been better off 'junking' the 'Duratechs' - but it was sure a lot cheaper to simply modify the old 3.0. GM has been hanging onto decrepid old pushrod V6s longer than you've been alive. So now we have a competitively powerful Ford engine that has many of the refinement issues that the old 3.0 has had for many years and an engine IMO that not only trails those Toyota/Nissan engines but also the efforts by that Korean' upstart' that you like to talk about so much. .
#5044 of 6844 Guys... by joe97 Feb 07, 2008 (7:20 pm)
Hyundai doesn't have a 3.5, nor a 3.6, get it right please.   The 3.3L produces 264hp The 3.8L produces 290hp The 4.6L produces 375hp   Again, keep in mind the Genesis gets the second generation of its new engines. As evident in the 09 Sonata, its base engine not only gets a good bump in hp, it now achieves best-in-class MPG; ditto on the V6 engine, with gains in hp, and in the top of the pack as far as fuel efficiency is concerned. This is the trend the Genesis will be going, the engines will not be carried over from the Azera. Replies to this message: autokritiker (Feb 07, 2008 7:22 pm) allmet33 (Feb 08, 2008 6:45 am) joe97 (Feb 08, 2008 7:28 am)
#5045 of 6844 displacement clarification by autokritiker Feb 07, 2008 (7:21 pm)
Hyundai does not make a 3.6L V6 engine. GM makes the 3.6L V6. The Hyundai V6 engines are 3.3L and 3.8L. According to Hyundai's official press release, the Genesis 3.3L V6 is rated at 264 HP, using 87 octane unleaded. The Genesis 3.8L V6 is rated at 290 HP, also using 87 octane unleaded.   Adding direct injection (as in the IS350 and CTS engines) appears to give V6 engines a gain of between 30 to 40 HP. Given direct injection, then, the Genesis' 3.3L should jump up to around 295 to 305 HP, and the 3.8L should jump up to around 320 to 330 HP. I wouldn't be surprised if at least the 3.8L got DI within a couple years.
#5046 of 6844 Re: Guys... [joe97] by autokritiker Feb 07, 2008 (7:22 pm)
Replying to: joe97 (Feb 07, 2008 7:20 pm) good timing
#5047 of 6844 Re: Guys... [joe97] by allmet33 Feb 08, 2008 (6:45 am)
Replying to: joe97 (Feb 07, 2008 7:20 pm) Imagine my embarassment...you're right, no 3.6. However...Hyundai did produce a 3.5...go back and look at the '04-'06 Santa Fe and the '02-'05 XG350 had it.   What do you mean the engines won't carry over from the Azera...the 3.8 going into the Genesis is the one from the Azera. Replies to this message: joe97 (Feb 08, 2008 7:28 am)

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