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Sedans Mainstream Large Sedans Comparison
6844 messages, Last post on Mar 23, 2009 at 12:32 PM
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Replying to: captain2 (Feb 07, 2008 1:15 pm) Actually...el Captain...go check the numbers on Edmunds...the 3.8 is as efficient as the 3.5. I guess we'll have to see what the FE numbers are on the Genesis with the 3.8...if they remain on the same level as what the it produces with the Azera...I guess you would have to eat your words, huh?
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Replying to: captain2 (Feb 07, 2008 1:03 pm) Dude...you're truly trying every possible way to make it seem like your point is valid, even by trying to confuse folks. Let's run this down one last time... If you have a 2006 Azera that you paid $26,000 for and a 2006 Avalon that you paid $30,000 for, right? (just using an example) Both cars equally equipped, same mileage and same condition. Now...2 years down the road you go to trade them in. If both vehicles lost $4,000 in value in that 2 years, then trade in should bring the Azera owner $22,000 and the Avalon owner $26,000, right? The point I'm making here is that the numbers stay relative to that starting $4,000 difference. It cost more, therefore it's worth more. That is why I said if you go by the percentage of difference between new value and trade-in value...the numbers are close to the point it's no major advantage in the Avalon's favor. If you want to take it on the level of financing, the Avalon owner will pay more even if the financing terms were the same on both cars. For giggles, let's use 5% over 60 months. Financing the $30,000 at 5% will cost you more than financing $26,000 at 5%...so again, where are your savings??? So...now explain to me how the Avalon will save you money vs. the Azera??? |
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Replying to: allmet33 (Feb 07, 2008 1:19 pm) 2008 Avalon (3.5 V6): 19/28/22 mpg 2008 Azera (3.8 V6): 17/26/20 mpg Cost to drive 25 miles: Avalon: $3.49 Azera: $3.84 For normal driving of 15k miles per year that's $2,094 for Avalon and $2,304 for Azera. During the 5-year span the difference in cost is $1,015. That might not seem to be a huge amount but why do I want to pay the extra grand if I can get the equal (or slightly better) performance through a smaller and slightly more fuel efficient engine? I mean...the fact that Hyundai is putting the 3.6, producing 268 hp in the Genesis proves it. Last I checked, Toyota already achieved that with the 3.5 2GR 3 years ago.
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Replying to: louiswei (Feb 07, 2008 1:03 pm) I'm not the one saying it can't be done, nor am I saying that it will be done. However...Hyundai is already showing that their current V-6's are versatile. I haven't speculated anything, I merely posed a question of how one could know what is or isn't possible, without being a Hyundai insider? The question of a 3.6 producing 300 hp or the 3.8 kicking out 350...wasn't a speculative statement. It was a question intended to show that one DOESN'T know what may, or may not be possible. |
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Replying to: allmet33 (Feb 07, 2008 1:19 pm) and you know that this is NOT basically the same engine? That's a question BTW because I don't know for sure. GM and Ford both took ~260 CI V8s and used the same block (and several other things) for 50 years now and in the process had the engine 'bored and stroked' out all the way to over 400 CIs and many many claimed 'gross' HPs. The Toyota 2GR started life as a 4 liter 'high torque' 'stroker' truck engine, reduced its size by shortening that 'stroke' and in the process and came up with the 3.5 which is now used across the entire product line. The Nissan VQ started life as a 190hp 3 liter V6 (late 80s I think) and the VQ35 might be used in even more Nissan/Infiniti vehicles than even Toyota has found for the 2GR Oft times what is new - really isn't.
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Replying to: louiswei (Feb 07, 2008 1:35 pm) Well...considering Toyota has been doing it for a longer period and Hyundai is playing catch up...I would say they are doing pretty good.
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Replying to: allmet33 (Feb 07, 2008 1:43 pm)
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Replying to: captain2 (Feb 07, 2008 1:39 pm) In Hyundai's defense...they created the 3.8 as a brand new engine, so they need time to "evolve" it in their line up.
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Replying to: captain2 (Feb 07, 2008 1:47 pm) BINGO!!
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Replying to: allmet33 (Feb 07, 2008 2:10 pm) More specifically - cheaper! Toyota increased their HP ratings about 30% with the 2GR as well as improving the FE about 10% and that would be the 'base' 2GR-FS. It is also said that they are spending $1000.00 less PER engine PER car. A remarkable achievement if you think about it, that translates literally into $ billions. FWIU the engine is built in MISSOURI. You don't suppose that Toyota is feeling any guilt putting that extra money in their pockets do you?  IMO Ford would have been better off 'junking' the 'Duratechs' - but it was sure a lot cheaper to simply modify the old 3.0. GM has been hanging onto decrepid old pushrod V6s longer than you've been alive. So now we have a competitively powerful Ford engine that has many of the refinement issues that the old 3.0 has had for many years and an engine IMO that not only trails those Toyota/Nissan engines but also the efforts by that Korean' upstart' that you like to talk about so much. . |
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