Last post on Jul 16, 2012 at 7:08 AM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Buick Lucerne, Chevrolet Impala, Dodge Charger, Ford Taurus, Hyundai Azera, Toyota Avalon, Nissan Maxima, Pontiac G8, Car Comparisons, Sedan
#3821 of 6854 Re: Engine and Transmission Problems [tjc78]
Nov 29, 2007 (12:43 pm)
yep, there seems to be a lot of misinformed folks out there with long memories, but no facts relevant to what Toyota has been doing since December of 2004 (the 2GR) - at least as far as the Avalon is concerned. It must be acknowledged however, that Toyota did mishandle the whole 'sludge' issue in those old 3.0s and 3.3s back in the late 90s/early 00s - wasn't aware that the 4 has ever had the problem in the Camry or any other vehicle.
#3822 of 6854 Re: 2008 Avalon LTD Engine [louiswei]
Nov 29, 2007 (12:55 pm)
If I find a model from BMW, Lexus, MB which has an owner satisfaction less than 83% does that make it a less car than Azera
well put, the BMW/Lexus/MB etc. owner is going to rightfully expect more from his car because those particular cars are more (and not just from a purchase price perspective). The Azera rates highly because the owners generally expect less because they paid a whole lot less and got exactly that. And before all the Azera buffs get too excited, the same could be said to varying degrees about all the cars in this group. Our cars are not BMWs, Lexii and nor should we expect them to be....
#3823 of 6854 Re: 2008 Avalon LTD Engine [captain2]
Nov 29, 2007 (1:00 pm)
Okay guys, the captain said it, not me...
#3824 of 6854 Re: Engine and Transmission Problems [captain2]
Nov 29, 2007 (1:29 pm)
You are right. Toyota still has egg on their face from the sludge issue. I did get a letter in the mail about the class action suit regarding my 2000 Solara (3.0L). It was never an issue with me, the car was turned back in before I even got the letter. I don't recall sludging of any of the 4 cyls either.
#3825 of 6854 Re: 2008 Avalon LTD Engine [captain2]
Nov 29, 2007 (1:29 pm)
Boy are you wrong..... If someone is buying a product.. I don't care what he pays for it he wants it to work. When I purchased my Azera I expected it to be free of defects and I would be just as demanding whether I payed $1 or $27,000.
Oh...by the way 15,000 miles and NO defects. I wish I could say the same for the Toyota Solara I had before :=)
#3826 of 6854 Re: 2008 Avalon LTD Engine [hjc1]
Nov 29, 2007 (1:40 pm)
Hjc1...you're right, everyone buys a product expecting it to be defect free, but...does that mean it will be defect free? It doesn't matter if you pay $1 or $250K dollars for a car...no matter how it's built, there is a chance it can have a defect. The defect isn't my issue, my issue is how the company stands behind it when it surfaces. Now, it sure would be easy if you experienced a major defect within say...the first 30 days, that you could take it back and simply exchange it for another one like you would with something from a store. However, with the process of registration, titling and all that...it makes it more difficult to do something like that. Maybe, they should implement a 60 day temp tag and not start processing the registration and title paperwork till after the first 30 days.
I bought my Azera and in the first week, the only defect I encountered was the clock not working properly. The only other things I've come across as defects (in 18 months) were...the hood release latch breaking, the sun roof not seating properly, the faux woodgrain chipping on the steering wheel and the faulty seatbelt sensor that kept making the airbag light come on. Now I know there are some that would have thrown a fit dealing with those things. While a slight inconvenience to me, none of them stranded me on the side of the road or made the car inoperable. So...each time, I took some time off and got it taken care of. In most cases, the car was at the dealer for about an hour and I would be on my way. Does it bother me that I had to take some time off to deal with it...nah, not really because I scheduled it on MY terms. Worst case scenario, I could drop the car off the night before and pick it up the next day when the work is done. However...I have the luxury of having 3 Hyundai dealers within 20 minutes of my home too. So I do feel bad for those that have just one dealer to turn to no matter how far they have to drive.
#3827 of 6854 Re: 2008 Avalon LTD Engine [hjc1]
Nov 29, 2007 (1:45 pm)
I don't think 100% satisfaction equals "free of defects".
Like the captain said, a lot of people who brought a luxury car usually have higher expectations than "free of defects", they are normally pickier than say the most Azera owners.
To be honest, 80% of the Avalon is really not that much different than 83% of the Azera, but I am pretty sure a lot of Avalon owners have higher expectations in the cars because it is the benchmark of the class. Azera owners on the other hand think it's a great value and a steal for $25K so more will be satisfy with "free of defects".
I know a lot of these are speculation and that's why I said earlier that I don't want to start this debate. However, even though you might not be the case but you really can't speak for all Azera owners right?
#3828 of 6854 Re: 2008 Avalon LTD Engine [allmet33]
Nov 29, 2007 (1:49 pm)
The only other things I've come across as defects (in 18 months) were...the hood release latch breaking, the sun roof not seating properly, the faux woodgrain chipping on the steering wheel and the faulty seatbelt sensor that kept making the airbag light come on.
For me that's totally unacceptable. I expect my car to be more than "none of them stranded me on the side of the road or made the car inoperable". If I am giving my satisfaction score to your Azera it'll receive a D (60%) and the only reason it is passing is because it never stranded you on the side of the road.
I am curious what is your satisfaction score for you car.
#3829 of 6854 Re: 2008 Avalon LTD Engine [louiswei]
Nov 29, 2007 (2:06 pm)
I don't know...I guess I'm just not as high strung as it seems most of the folks are when it comes to stuff like that. What I find funny is that a car is mechanical, to even conceptualize ZERO defects or problems is ludacris. Why go in expecting none, only to blow a gasket when something does happen; when you can go in with an allowance that something could possibly be defective and if a defect surfaces...it's not a big deal because you prepared yourself to handle it? I don't understand what getting upset over something you have no control over does.
Nobody can ever own a car that never needs something fixed at some point, it's impossible. Now...whether it requires a trip to the dealer or it's something you can fix on your own...that could be different story. However, in this day and age of warranty coverage...it's most likely going to go to the dealer.
Wow...60% satisfaction score, huh? You're pretty harsh in your judging my friend. Only 2 of those problems were mechanical and in no way related to the power train or any other major systems. At worst, peripheral issues. In my opinion...they were very minor issues (the airbag light was the most annoying of them), but...they were all taken care of quickly with a smile and no hassle.
Personally, my satisfaction score on MY Azera would be more like 95% because I'm factoring in how I feel about the car overall. The quality, the fit and finish, the comfort and the reliability (thus far). I've had a Toyota Camry that required more major work in less time than I've owned my Azera. Let's see...replace front and rear engine seals, rebuild transmission and replace the timing belt all within a 6 month period. Of course, I had to eat the cost of all those things as the car was past it's warranty period. Aside from that...the car was great. I'm just one that realistically expects breakdowns of mechanical things...especially when it comes to cars.
#3830 of 6854 Re: 2008 Avalon LTD Engine [allmet33]
Nov 29, 2007 (5:06 pm)
You've got to love the passion that some people have about their cars. However, the "My car is better than your car" attitude gets old.
Your position is much along my position, a car is mechanical, electrical, and computerized, and yet they all work pretty well now a days but to go "defect free" is probably asking an awful lot out of them. But some makes and models are better than others. I was, and still am, a solid supporter of a manufacturer for the last 18 years (6 cars total) even though my last two cars from them required, the tranny replaced after just one month in the first one, both had to be taken in for rattles in the dash, battery failed after only 18 months in the first, and other various little things done while having oil change and tires rotated. Big deal no, we still really liked the cars and would give them both probably 90+% satisfaction, and the service department was very good (very important in car satisfaction I feel). Can I compare a 30K car to a 40+K car, sure I can, I can compare anything I want to even apples to oranges, does it make sense probably not. Should these cars be be comparable, if I owned the more expensive car and many of the reviews and maybe if I am not to prideful, actually test drive the 30K and found that it was equal to or a better car, I would not be pleased. I can even compare my first car, '69 Dodge Dart, slant six, 3 on the column, black vinyl, to my current car. Now if they were even close to comparing I would really have a problem.
I am not smarter than anyone else in this forum, I am just looking for what I perceive to be the best car for what I want to pay, not what I can afford. So with that, we are now driving an '07 Azera Limited and loving it. By the way the previous cars with the "defects" were Avalons, we thought they were great cars for the price. We shall see where this adventure takes us.