Last post on Jul 16, 2012 at 7:08 AM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Buick Lucerne, Chevrolet Impala, Dodge Charger, Ford Taurus, Hyundai Azera, Toyota Avalon, Nissan Maxima, Pontiac G8, Car Comparisons, Sedan
#3583 of 6854 Re: 2006 Azera Limited vs. 2006 Charger SE [louiswei]
Nov 08, 2007 (8:07 am)
louis - no argument about the 2.7, Chrysler ought to think twice before they ask 178hp to pull damn near 2 tons. Talk about a natural for the rental car lots? The 3.5 will at least get the car down into the 7s. Of course, we could say almost the same thing about Buick. What is the 3.8 still doing in the Lucerne, guess the UAW won't let GM shutdown the engine plant that produces the thing so they had to use it for something?
#3584 of 6854 Re: 2006 Azera Limited vs. 2006 Charger SE [thegraduate]
Nov 08, 2007 (8:15 am)
Was not trying to be a cheerleader for the old 3.8, nor do I have any real problem for the modern 4 cyl packages (love my wife's '02 Camry XLE) - BUT I have to say that the almost automatic denigration of the 3.8 seems to border on the rediculous. My company car for several years was a 3.8 Bonneville, maybe one of the most comfortable and reliable cars I've had. I spend a good part of my life banging up and down the Jersey turnpike and the GS Parkway, some of the nastiest hi-speed traffic around. Yeah, you had to floor it to kick down, but I never had any lack of passing power.
#3585 of 6854 Re: 2006 Azera Limited vs. 2006 Charger SE [alexstore]
Nov 08, 2007 (8:20 am)
To be fair, the Nissan VQ and most recently the Toyota 2GR set the standards by which engines of this size and type should be judged - not only in power output but also in FE. Hyundai's 3.8 is a good effort, however, just lacking some of the sophistication of those two.
#3586 of 6854 Re: 2006 Azera Limited vs. 2006 Charger SE [jimmy2x]
Nov 08, 2007 (8:31 am)
the 3.8 is damn near as old as I am - dating well back into the 60s as a Buick '231'. Except for some dubious flirtations with plastic intake manifolds it has generally been at least reliable - perhaps as it should be - GM has had 50 years to work on it! A web search on the 'Buick 231' will yield things like: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buick_V6_engine#Future_of_the_3800e:
which traces its history thru its multiple renditions and also notes that next year it is finally scheduled to put out of its misery.
#3587 of 6854 Lucerne 3.8L[jimmy2x]
Nov 08, 2007 (8:33 am)
Yeah, you had to floor it to kick down, but I never had any lack of passing power.
Which sounds like the engine struggled to move the car, to me. Either that, or the transmission is a terrible piece that works against the driver.
I'm not trying to bash the engine itself. It was fine 10, 20 years ago. But it simply lacks the polish, the torque, and the horsepower to compete with more modern, smaller, and more efficient engines. I'm really knocking GM for not updating its engine package. Ford finally did with the Taurus. While it was overdue for them, at least they weren't the LAST ones offering such an engine in a vehicle.
By the way, I'm a 4-cylinder guy, so I'm not a power-hungry kind of person. But for a 2.4L 166 hp engine in my car, I'd hope an engine 1.5x its size would make 1.5x its power, but the Lucerne doesn't come close. 30 more horses for an extra liter and a half of engine. Sure there's more torque, but when I need to merge, the horsies are what matter.
#3588 of 6854 Re: 2006 Azera Limited vs. 2006 Charger SE [jimmy2x]
Nov 08, 2007 (8:36 am)
My SC 3.8 has 163k mi on it and it is only controllable on clean dry pavement when aimed straight ahead (with TC turned off). The 240 HP, 282 ft-lb car pulled the 12 yr old 3690 lb car new past Hemi V8 Durango in most recent test of it's passing power. How much lighter is an Azera V6?
#3589 of 6854 Re: Lucerne 3.8L[jimmy2x] [thegraduate]
Nov 08, 2007 (8:54 am)
We really have no arguement here. The 3.8 IS old and I suspect that it is in its last year of production. Will likely be replaced by the more modern 3.6 which by all accounts is a good engine - I only hope it is as indestructible. As I said, if I'm the one paying for it, will go for the V8.
#3590 of 6854 Re: 2006 Azera Limited vs. 2006 Charger SE [vic10]
Nov 08, 2007 (9:05 am)
vic10 - I guess you don't know that the 300C is built on the old Mercedes E-class platform. So, in many respects you are driving a German car.
I fully understand, and appreciate, your feelings re. WWII, but most cars today have an international influence. It's really difficult to find a truly all-American car now. Even Ford's Duratec engine is not a Ford design - it was a Porsche design, and Porsche sold all engineering drawings, and even some initial tooling, to Ford.
#3591 of 6854 Re: 2006 Azera Limited vs. 2006 Charger SE [captain2]
Nov 08, 2007 (11:05 am)
Hyundai's 3.8 will have 300hp on its RWD coupe; we'll see how these translate into the RWD luxury sedan and the facelift Azera. Promised to have improved fuel economy as well.
#3592 of 6854 Re: 2006 Azera Limited vs. 2006 Charger SE [colloquor]
Nov 08, 2007 (11:34 am)
Yes, I suppose with the incestuous corporate relationships these days, in another few years there will be one recipe book of layouts and technology and each manufacturer will pick from that one list to define his/her own vehicles, be it German, Japanese, Korean, American, whatever. That is if the Chinese don't poison us all first....
Actually if I were to pick one system on the 300C that I don't like it's the suspension, which is perhaps the most dominant Mercedes item. Too firm. Too noisy. Love that U.S. Hemi though....