Last post on Jul 16, 2012 at 7:08 AM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Buick Lucerne, Chevrolet Impala, Dodge Charger, Ford Taurus, Hyundai Azera, Toyota Avalon, Nissan Maxima, Pontiac G8, Car Comparisons, Sedan
#314 of 6854 Re: Buick beats Toyota [captain2]
Nov 13, 2006 (11:30 am)
Browsing CR recent copies at the library I thought I saw that Avalon had been lowered in CR's ratings. This was a picture and rectangular note on the bottom of a page--not a full review.
>the highest rated sedan (89)
And I love my 50 year old engine (I thought the redesign was in 1997 for the 3800, but you should know better) that gave me 36 mpg to and from the RCA Dome in Indy two times this weekend. Yup, Corolla 4 cyl stick mileage with V6 power and large car smoothness. And don't tell any of the fadists..., it has overhead valves!!!! Keep it a secret.
And GM pays taxes in US. Toyota is a Japanese company. Guess where the money flow eventually ends after the gerrymandering of profit/loss of subsidiaries and captive suppliers.
#315 of 6854 Re: ... [plekto]
Nov 13, 2006 (11:43 am)
The IS is a joke. Both built on a Corolla platform
Dude, before posting some non-sense, do some googling. The IS is built on the same platform as the GS but a shortened version. The IS is RWD (like the GS) and Corolla is FWD, the two is not possibly to share platform.
Say whatever you want but the CTS is slotted to compete with the 3er, IS and G. Let me remind you the last time...that segment is called "Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedan".
#316 of 6854 Re: Buick beats Toyota [imidazol97]
Nov 13, 2006 (12:45 pm)
imidazo - you know better than that (I hope). GM has lost billions in the last few years - US tax law allows those losses to be applied to any future years, if and when, they do make any profits. It will be a number of years before any GM Co. pays anything other than some real estate taxes. Besides which GM has been losing about $2500 on EVERY car they sell (or give away), there are no profits to pay taxes on, money for R&D, or even the money required to close more plants and/or move them to Canada, Mexico, China or wherever.
The Avalon, fyi, has never been rated higher than 'better than average' in CR reliability even going back into the 90s, and in terms of reliability it was downgraded to merely average in late 2005 - the Avalon, at that point, something unknown to the 'American' mfgrs. - a completely NEW car. From what I understand, the 06s etc. have been rerated back up which could be logically expected. If GM/Buick , for example, had the financial and engineering abilities to even try what Toyota did with the Avalon, the tow trucks (and 'black circles') would still be lined up solid between here and Flint, Mich.!
But be happy thinking that you are better supporting our great country buying that Buick, Chevy, Ford or whatever as opposed to one to those 'nasty' Toyotas, Hondas, Nissans - exactly the opposite is probably the truth!!!
#317 of 6854 Re: Buick beats Toyota [imidazol97]
Nov 13, 2006 (1:30 pm)
"Yup, Corolla 4 cyl stick mileage with V6 power and large car smoothness"
Last time I checked the Avalon gets better or the same mileage with about 70+ more HP and equal or better smoothness. Just for curiousity at what average speed did you achieve 36 MPG?? No way at anything above 65 MPH.
#318 of 6854 Re: Buick beats Toyota [imidazol97]
Nov 13, 2006 (1:35 pm)
The 3800 is nothing special. I dumped my 01 Impala because of intake manifold leaks and transmission problems. 200HP out of 3.8L sucks and you know it. So what if the fuel economy is 19/29 there are way better autos out there.
When accelerating the pushrod engine sounds like a vacuum cleaner and boy does it sound rough when pushed hard.
For me the deal breaker is no RWD. The Buick doesn't have it and neither does the Avalon. So I chose the Dodge Charger which allows me to accelerate without worrying about torque steer and better weight distribution of 52/48 versus a FWD car which has 62/38.
#319 of 6854 Re: Buick beats Toyota [batista]
Nov 13, 2006 (2:13 pm)
and you are absolutely right about a basic superiority in getting something close to 50/50 weight distribution. The Avalon has no noticeable torque steer, but will, of course understeer heavily at the limit as all FWD drive cars will.
Sure limits your choices in this category though.
The Avalon will easily outaccelerate your Charger (if its not the Hemi) and even a V8 Lucerne, not to mention FE that's not even close!
Nov 13, 2006 (8:43 pm)
Check out a CTS. Less than 30K for one with the 3.6 engine is easily doable after rebates and a bit of haggling.
Used? Silly cheap - 18K asking price on a two year old model at the local dealer here in Pasadena, CA. Sure there's some wiggle-room in that figure as well.
255HP, VVT, engine that makes the 3800 look like the aging hunk of metal that it is, and it's RWD. The only thing is.. well, it's not a jellybean. Heh. That's good and bad - as most reviewers have said - it kind of grows on you. I think we are all used to seeing jellybeans and it looks odd at first
2007 CTS 3.6
Net Cost: $29,414 That includes delivery. $29,414 out the door. It just whomps on the competition at that price-point.
$31,964 with the 18 inch/high-end suspension option, rear folding seat, engine block heater, and whatever else I could reasonably throw in other than a sunroof(which leak and are is too far back to really be useable)
I see no reason to get an Avalon or Lucerne or simmilar with this costing a huge amount less and having about the same performance.
#321 of 6854 Re: ... [plekto]
Nov 13, 2006 (10:09 pm)
#322 of 6854 Re: ... [plekto]
Nov 13, 2006 (10:12 pm)
Look, I don't drive the IS, but, come on!!
The Corolla sure wishes it looks like the IS!
#323 of 6854 Re: Buick beats Toyota [batista]
Nov 14, 2006 (1:47 am)
Please allow me to throw in my 2 cents worth on the 3800 v-6. Around town or on a "flat" level highway, the 3800 is adequate... I just traded in an oldsmobile regency elite that had the 3800 in it and I have to tell you, whenever I would drive thru those hills in the Ozarks, that poor 197 hp engine was straining to the top of each and every hill..and not to mention the engine was so noisy that a friend of mine asked me if I had a diesel engine under the hood...gas mileage was fine, and the engine was dependable..hardly anything major wrong in almost 15 years of service, but god help you if you needed to get out of the way of an oncoming train or semi... the power just isnt there.