Last post on Jul 16, 2012 at 8:08 AM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Buick Lucerne, Chevrolet Impala, Dodge Charger, Ford Taurus, Hyundai Azera, Toyota Avalon, Nissan Maxima, Pontiac G8, Car Comparisons, Sedan
#2882 of 6854 Re: Not So Fast, Buick Owners [tjc78]
Aug 11, 2007 (9:12 am)
I seriously doubt that anyone who can afford a 30-35K car really couldn't afford a better car a few years used.(or something liks a LS and not have to trade cars for a decade)
The interiors are full of plastic. The doors sound hollow when you close them. They are heavy as well - way WAY over 3000 lbs(closer to 4000 actually). I could be describing a Hyundai, a Buick, a Toyota...
Now, there are a few exceptions. The Lucerne CXS is very nice, and the Avalon is as well(though plainly overpriced). But neither are a Lexus, Infinity, or Mercedes.
Btw, my money, used, would be on a 2002-2003 S430. Amazing car and very affordable, considering.
Most go for about $20K, but I picked this as you could easily haggle it down to $25K and it has nearly no miles on it.(of course, if it was me, I'd only buy it in black...)
#2883 of 6854 Re: Off Base [tjc78]
Aug 11, 2007 (2:30 pm)
According to Car and Driver
Azera - 6.5 Sec 1/4 15.2 sec
Doesn't sound right. C&D reached 6.5 in the Sonata 3.3
I'd think the Azera 3.8 at least shaves some with higher power output.
#2884 of 6854 oatmeal
Aug 11, 2007 (6:53 pm)
Hey- oatmeal is worth arguing over- especially the newer flavors that they have come out with lately. Mmmmmmmmmmm....... Oatmeal........
Unless I am horribly mistaken, the Azera also weighs more than the Sonata, which would explain why it isn't faster.
Where I live, a 2002 LS430 w/ 65K miles goes for 28K, so buying a used high-end luxury sedan is certainly an option.
#2886 of 6854 Re: oatmeal [jml7]
Aug 11, 2007 (8:02 pm)
If you prefer a 6 year old car (out of warranty) with 65K miles, go ahead & buy it.
Others would prefer a brand new Azera with "no miles" and the new car warranty.
I think the Azera is faster than the Sonata (unless you're comparing the Azera GLS which has the Sonata 3.3L engine) since the weight to horse power ratio of the 3.8L Azera is less than that of the 3.3L Sonata. For everyday driving the Sonata is pretty darn quick, but the Azera is quicker.
#2887 of 6854 Re: Now where do we fit in Korean automakers? [alexstore]
Aug 11, 2007 (8:19 pm)
Over the years, my unscientific observation has been that you can tell a lot about the future of the car from the direction the carmaker is going.
Applying that today:
Honda's on top because of its quality perception, both in studies and in the flesh, and wants to stay there.
Toyota's had its head turned by sales and profit goals and isn't under pressure on quality because of its unimpeachable image, so it's slipped.
The US Big 2.5 can't shake their management heritage, so their long-term reliability will always be suspect.
Hyundai/Kia are on the make and determined to impress. I'm willing to bet their build quality is just as good where it doesn't show. (That's not to say the cars are perfect -- witness the clunk. It's to say they're probably using first-class materials and exerting maximum effort.)
As for the snippy-snippy comments about Korean cars being "oatmeal" nobody would really desire, count me as one exception. I'd love to own and drive an Azera. It's pretty, it's fast, it's well made, and it pampers you like a sultan's bedroom. What more can a commuter ask?
#2888 of 6854 Azera = oatmeal
Aug 12, 2007 (8:23 am)
I agree. There is a reason that oatmeal sells well. Not flashy, but it works.
#2889 of 6854 Re: Not So Fast, Buick Owners [tonycd]
Aug 12, 2007 (10:10 am)
The Japanese and Korean corportate leaders look 3, 5, 10 years down the road and where they want their companies to be.
American look to the next big bonus, stock option and so forth. Chrysler just hired the guy fired by Home Depot and given $250 million to leave. He has no experience with automobiles at all.
While the marketing and flash of American advertising does work for a while, eventually people making the second biggest purchases of their lives look for real quality, dependability and reliability.
I have owned Ford and Chrysler products and have friends who have owned the same and GM. They now drive Japanese cars-permanently.
BTW, the maintenance cost on used European cars is about $2,000 annually above regular maintenance from I have been told.
#2890 of 6854 Re: Off Base [joe97]
Aug 12, 2007 (1:40 pm)
"Doesn't sound right. C&D reached 6.5 in the Sonata 3.3"
Thats the #'s they got when they last tested it (from their website). There are so variables when they do 0-60 and 1/4 miles that it could easily be a few tenths off from test to test.
#2891 of 6854 Re: Not So Fast, Buick Owners [plekto]
Aug 12, 2007 (1:47 pm)
You are right that there are a # of deals in the used car market, however I wouldn't touch a 5 year old S430 with a ten foot pole. There are so many electronic gizmos in that thing I feel it would nickle and dime you to death. The last thing I want is a 18 - 20K car loan on a five year old out of warranty vehicle. I guess you could buy a warranty probably 2K on a Benz, by then you could buy a brand new Avalon/Azera/Lucerne. Different strokes I guess.
BTW a coworker has an '05 or '06 S430 4matic. He rode in my Avalon and said the ride was everybit as good. I said nah, can't be. So he let me take it for a spin. Not that much different (little more controlled and quieter). However, that vehicle had the nicest leather I have ever felt and the attention to detail is amazing. As it should for 85K.