Last post on Jul 16, 2012 at 8:08 AM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Buick Lucerne, Chevrolet Impala, Dodge Charger, Ford Taurus, Hyundai Azera, Toyota Avalon, Nissan Maxima, Pontiac G8, Car Comparisons, Sedan
#1609 of 6854 Re: any differences Avalon/Azera [allmet33]
Apr 03, 2007 (12:40 pm)
Nissan...bulletproof??? I've NEVER heard those two in the same sentence before. A close friend of mine bought the 2002 Altima 3.5 V-6 and within the 1st year, the tranny had to be replaced. Take a cruise around your local used car dealers and see how many Nissan sedans you'll find on those lots...PLENTY!!!
The transmissions Nissan uses in their cars are very good - as long as they're taken care of and not abused, that is. Their transmission vendors (Aisin and Jatco) supply quite a few car companies, actually, not just Nissan. In fact I think your Azera's transmission is made by Aisin, though I wouldn't swear to it.
The fact that you see "plenty" of Nissans on your local used car lots is meaningless. It is probably because they are such popular cars, the used car dealers buy all they can at auto auctions. I don't seen "plenty" of Hyundais because as recently as 2002 they were disposable cars.
Look at resale values of Azeras vs. Maximas or Sonatas vs. Altimas, and that will pretty much tell you all you need to know about the desirability of these cars to the general public. Even if you don't care about resale, you still have to wonder why the resale is so low compared to the cars a company like Nissan makes. My guess is it's the same reason I won't buy a Korean car, their reliability is just too much of an unknown at this point.
And for the record, I have no hidden agenda against Korean makes. On the contrary, I hope they bury the competition in sales, it will only improve the overall quality and "gotta have" features of the cars and trucks that are available for purchase. Do you think that American brands would have made such huge strides in reliability over the last decade if it hasn't been for the Japanese competition? Yeah, right!
Apr 03, 2007 (1:15 pm)
Here's the test for today.
You won a prize at the local shopping mall.
You can select any of the following manufacturers car free.
BMW, MB, Hyundai, Lexus.
Which one do you chose?
#1611 of 6854 Re: any differences Avalon/Azera [perna]
Apr 03, 2007 (1:18 pm)
those 4 Nissans I mentioned - a total of about 700k miles on them, and NOT ONCE did I ever have any of them in the shop, doing the routine maintainence myself. I would contend that Nissans are not only 'bulletproof' by any reasonable definition but also every bit the equal to Toyota and Honda at least based on my own not so insignificant experience.
To answer your other point I believe that the American brands are making 'quality' improvements for 2 reasons: 1) they aren't building (or selling) as many cars and because of the labor contracts have way too many employees that can, in turn, spend a lot of that extra time in quality control and 2) because of lack of finances, they continue to build their cars with older and sometimes ancient designs and technologies which, if nothing else, are proven and therefore should be more reliable. And I don't believe that the Japan 3 even consider the American 3 even to be competition anymore. They had better though, keep an eye on those 'upstart' Koreans and the soon to be starting Chinese.
PS - Sonata resale values were and are hurt by 2 things: 1) a concerted effort by Hyundai to put as many American butts in their products as possible thru the rental lots, those cars, eventually diluting the market and 2) the fact that they sold so darn cheap to begin with.
#1612 of 6854 Re: any differences Avalon/Azera [captain2]
Apr 03, 2007 (1:27 pm)
93 Maxima SE, 2 years old with 86,000 miles. Timing chain had to be replaced. $1800. I wish it had been bulletproof.
#1613 of 6854 Re: any differences Avalon/Azera [joe131]
Apr 03, 2007 (1:38 pm)
helps to check the oil every once in awhile? just kidding - of course, there are always individual horror stories, that may influence a car buyer's decisions for the rest of their lives. $1800.00 BTW, sounds like you got ripped off - that chain is neither that expensive or hard to replace.
#1614 of 6854 Re: any differences Avalon/Azera [captain2]
Apr 03, 2007 (1:48 pm)
the chain chewed up the casting adjacent to it
#1615 of 6854 Re: any differences Avalon/Azera [captain2]
Apr 03, 2007 (1:49 pm)
as an example:
Microsoft Word - Document3 (PDF)
Subject: 1996 Maxima Timing Chain. Question: ... need to be replaced at 100K miles, to the cost of about $2,000. It's. currently at 62K. ...www.owenautomotive.ca/_.pdf/96 Maxima Timing Chain.pdf - 38k - View as html - More from this site
#1616 of 6854 Product reliability
Apr 03, 2007 (1:53 pm)
"PS - Sonata resale values were and are hurt by 2 things: 1) a concerted effort by Hyundai to put as many American butts in their products as possible thru the rental lots,"
Seems to me if you had a bad reputation for quality in the past a smart thing to do WOULD BE fill up rental lots. With the exceptions of police departments and taxi fleets what could be better to gain consumer confidence?
#1617 of 6854 Re: Have any of you Lucerne Bashers actually really given one a chance? [bobwiley]
Apr 03, 2007 (1:57 pm)
BobWiley--Retired Air Force? Any chance you're the Bob Wiley that was assigned to AFTAC in Florida in the mid-1980s?
I concur with your post that quality has to be built in from the inception, and has to have the buy-in of those in design and working the line. It's a shame that the prime motivation appears to be something other than pride in product; Detroit is giving lip service to quality for the most part.
#1618 of 6854 Re: Product reliability [dborth]
Apr 03, 2007 (2:11 pm)
never said it was a bad idea did I? Hyundai did waht it likely needed to do. Police cars and taxis are what they sre specifically because they are so easy and inexpensive to repair, not necessarily because they are any more or less prone to break.