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Mainstream Large Sedans Comparison

6854 messages,  Last post on Jul 16, 2012 at 8:08 AM

You are in the Sedans Forum.

What is this discussion about? Buick Lucerne, Chevrolet Impala, Dodge Charger, Ford Taurus, Hyundai Azera, Toyota Avalon, Nissan Maxima, Pontiac G8, Car Comparisons, Sedan

Messages Page 162 of 686

#1606 of 6854 Re: any differences Avalon/Azera [perna] by allmet33

Apr 03, 2007 (12:00 pm)

Replying to: perna (Apr 03, 2007 11:23 am)
I too could care less what others think...thus, I'm driving an Azera.
 
As far as Excels go...well, most of us that are over 30 should know plenty. However, I did have a buddy that had one, that I ended up buying off of him...it had over 250K miles on it when it was totaled in a accident.
 
Nissan...bulletproof??? I've NEVER heard those two in the same sentence before. A close friend of mine bought the 2002 Altima 3.5 V-6 and within the 1st year, the tranny had to be replaced. Take a cruise around your local used car dealers and see how many Nissan sedans you'll find on those lots...PLENTY!!!
 
Funny, you mention a Kia with a tranny that drops out, do you know how many brand spankin new Caddy's I see on the side of the road with paper tags on them no less? Oh...I won't even begin to talk about the other newer American sedans (within the last 3 years) that end up broken down on the side of the road as well.
 
Wait a minute...American sedans hardly rank in the top 10 when it comes to dependability...that's right!!! What's really sad is that those that are over 35 might be too young to remember when Toyota, Honda and Datsun weren't exactly the most reliable on the market either. They just happened to be all that was available. All of them went through their woes and have managed to end up on the other side standing tall. Hyundai/Kia is gonna have to go through the same process...they are just on a learning curve at this point by having other's to model after.

#1607 of 6854 Re: any differences Avalon/Azera [perna] by captain2

Apr 03, 2007 (12:08 pm)

Replying to: perna (Apr 03, 2007 11:23 am)
FYI before I am perceived as a guy that 'loves korean cars', my last several rides have included a Maxima, [3] Altimas (the last one a 3.5) and my current Avalon. That said, don't think there is any real basis anymore for your 'Korean junk' concerns - reliability statistics and/or initial quality studies would seem to indicate otherwise. The jury is still out certainly with this latest batch of Korean products, but IMO, they have improved enough that all buyers ought to give them a serious look.

#1608 of 6854 Re: any differences Avalon/Azera [captain2] by perna

Apr 03, 2007 (12:14 pm)

Replying to: captain2 (Apr 03, 2007 12:08 pm)
That said, don't think there is any real basis anymore for your 'Korean junk' concerns - reliability statistics and/or initial quality studies would seem to indicate otherwise. The jury is still out certainly with this latest batch of Korean products, but IMO, they have improved enough that all buyers ought to give them a serious look.
 
The problem is that you don't really know what the long-term reliability is on these cars, because IMO they haven't been making "decent" cars long enough. I'm not stupid, my gut tells me that the '06 and up Sonatas and Azeras are good cars. However, you never really know until years down the road whether a car is any good or not. Considering how expensive cars are and how much I depend on mine, I just am not willing to take a chance on the Koreans yet. They're just too new at the "big league car game".
 
In my case, I just buy what I've had good luck with, and nobody I personally know has ever bought a dud Nissan. They've all hit the 100,000 mile and up club with zero serious issues.

#1609 of 6854 Re: any differences Avalon/Azera [allmet33] by perna

Apr 03, 2007 (12:40 pm)

Replying to: allmet33 (Apr 03, 2007 12:00 pm)
Nissan...bulletproof??? I've NEVER heard those two in the same sentence before. A close friend of mine bought the 2002 Altima 3.5 V-6 and within the 1st year, the tranny had to be replaced. Take a cruise around your local used car dealers and see how many Nissan sedans you'll find on those lots...PLENTY!!!
 
The transmissions Nissan uses in their cars are very good - as long as they're taken care of and not abused, that is. Their transmission vendors (Aisin and Jatco) supply quite a few car companies, actually, not just Nissan. In fact I think your Azera's transmission is made by Aisin, though I wouldn't swear to it.
 
The fact that you see "plenty" of Nissans on your local used car lots is meaningless. It is probably because they are such popular cars, the used car dealers buy all they can at auto auctions. I don't seen "plenty" of Hyundais because as recently as 2002 they were disposable cars.
 
Look at resale values of Azeras vs. Maximas or Sonatas vs. Altimas, and that will pretty much tell you all you need to know about the desirability of these cars to the general public. Even if you don't care about resale, you still have to wonder why the resale is so low compared to the cars a company like Nissan makes. My guess is it's the same reason I won't buy a Korean car, their reliability is just too much of an unknown at this point.
 
And for the record, I have no hidden agenda against Korean makes. On the contrary, I hope they bury the competition in sales, it will only improve the overall quality and "gotta have" features of the cars and trucks that are available for purchase. Do you think that American brands would have made such huge strides in reliability over the last decade if it hasn't been for the Japanese competition? Yeah, right!

#1610 of 6854 Test by floridabob1

Apr 03, 2007 (1:15 pm)

Here's the test for today.
You won a prize at the local shopping mall.
You can select any of the following manufacturers car free.
BMW, MB, Hyundai, Lexus.
Which one do you chose?

#1611 of 6854 Re: any differences Avalon/Azera [perna] by captain2

Apr 03, 2007 (1:18 pm)

Replying to: perna (Apr 03, 2007 12:40 pm)
those 4 Nissans I mentioned - a total of about 700k miles on them, and NOT ONCE did I ever have any of them in the shop, doing the routine maintainence myself. I would contend that Nissans are not only 'bulletproof' by any reasonable definition but also every bit the equal to Toyota and Honda at least based on my own not so insignificant experience.
To answer your other point I believe that the American brands are making 'quality' improvements for 2 reasons: 1) they aren't building (or selling) as many cars and because of the labor contracts have way too many employees that can, in turn, spend a lot of that extra time in quality control and 2) because of lack of finances, they continue to build their cars with older and sometimes ancient designs and technologies which, if nothing else, are proven and therefore should be more reliable. And I don't believe that the Japan 3 even consider the American 3 even to be competition anymore. They had better though, keep an eye on those 'upstart' Koreans and the soon to be starting Chinese.
PS - Sonata resale values were and are hurt by 2 things: 1) a concerted effort by Hyundai to put as many American butts in their products as possible thru the rental lots, those cars, eventually diluting the market and 2) the fact that they sold so darn cheap to begin with.

#1612 of 6854 Re: any differences Avalon/Azera [captain2] by joe131

Apr 03, 2007 (1:27 pm)

Replying to: captain2 (Apr 03, 2007 1:18 pm)
93 Maxima SE, 2 years old with 86,000 miles. Timing chain had to be replaced. $1800. I wish it had been bulletproof.

#1613 of 6854 Re: any differences Avalon/Azera [joe131] by captain2

Apr 03, 2007 (1:38 pm)

Replying to: joe131 (Apr 03, 2007 1:27 pm)
helps to check the oil every once in awhile? just kidding - of course, there are always individual horror stories, that may influence a car buyer's decisions for the rest of their lives. $1800.00 BTW, sounds like you got ripped off - that chain is neither that expensive or hard to replace.

#1614 of 6854 Re: any differences Avalon/Azera [captain2] by joe131

Apr 03, 2007 (1:48 pm)

Replying to: captain2 (Apr 03, 2007 1:38 pm)
the chain chewed up the casting adjacent to it

#1615 of 6854 Re: any differences Avalon/Azera [captain2] by joe131

Apr 03, 2007 (1:49 pm)

Replying to: captain2 (Apr 03, 2007 1:38 pm)
as an example:
 
Microsoft Word - Document3 (PDF)
Subject: 1996 Maxima Timing Chain. Question: ... need to be replaced at 100K miles, to the cost of about $2,000. It's. currently at 62K. ...www.owenautomotive.ca/_.pdf/96 Maxima Timing Chain.pdf - 38k - View as html - More from this site

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