Last post on Jul 16, 2012 at 8:08 AM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Buick Lucerne, Chevrolet Impala, Dodge Charger, Ford Taurus, Hyundai Azera, Toyota Avalon, Nissan Maxima, Pontiac G8, Car Comparisons, Sedan
#1466 of 6854 Re: any difference between chinese and Korean cars? [allmet33]
Mar 28, 2007 (4:48 pm)
The Maxima SE with a 5-speed stick and V-6 engine was a (the?) leading 4-door sports sedan even back in 1985 when it switched to front wheel drive. Before that it was direct competition to the Toyata Cressida, another rear wheel driver.
Then in 1989 with a total redesign and a 160 HP engine it re-established itself as an even stronger sport sedan entry and distanced itself further from the new Cressida, which had continued its aim at luxury (and power with a 190 HP V-6).
Again, in 1992, Maxima power was upped to 190 HP. It competed with and was found better than the 220 HP Ford Taurus SHO in the car magazines of the day.
The Maxima SE continued to be the best value sports sedan up until the 1995 makeover in which it lost much of its sporting character.
#1467 of 6854 Re: any difference between chinese and Korean cars? [allmet33]
Mar 28, 2007 (4:55 pm)
Ford also had the SHO 3.0 liter motor making 220 HP then.
#1468 of 6854 Re: any difference between chinese and Korean cars? [floridabob1]
Mar 28, 2007 (4:56 pm)
As I stated earlier, in '98, Chrysler was doing well. The "new" ('94 era) Ram truck was peaking in sales, the LH line (Intrepid/Concorde/LHS/300) had just been remodeled, the new Stratus/Sebring and Neon were in production and Chrysler was creating enthusiasm for their products by producing cars like the Viper, the Prowler, and the soon to be released PT Cruiser. On top of that, they had the bread and butter minivan which kept the cash flowing.
I'm sure there are some who say it was a move of necessity for them to agree to the "merger" but I believe it was more of a cashout on their recent successes.
Like it has been stated in the many rebuttals, MB has used nothing from Chrysler in their products so their reliability can't be linked to Chrysler. Captain's mention of CU's lowest reliability rating in relationship to the merger only only goes to the bias many feel they have toward "American" manufacturers. The whole argument is ludicrous since nearly all top management was shown the door immediately after deal went through. As for any Chrysler financial woes hurting MB reliability, I really don't see superior engineers or business moguls cutting costs on their flagship fleet, with tons of profit built in, to cover what you claim to be shoddy, cheap, and inferior products.
While it could be argued that MB may not have been able to bring Chrysler production up to MB standards, there is no logical explanation as to how Chrysler could drag down MB. It is even arguable that MB was any better to start. As one of the other posters noted, "routine" maintenance for a MB has always been much more than the American version of routine.
#1469 of 6854 Correction in line... [joe131]
Mar 28, 2007 (7:08 pm)
My mistake, the Toyota Cressida had an inline 6-cylinder motor, never a V-6. The Camry and Avalon 6 cylinder motors were always V-6, but never 6 inline.
#1470 of 6854 Re: any difference between chinese and Korean cars? [quietpro]
Mar 29, 2007 (5:37 am)
what you say is logical and possibly even true - but the facts remain - MBs recent declines in quality correspond almost to the day with the Chrysler acquisition. Didn't understand it then, and surely don't understand it now.
IMPO always thought that Chrysler was the low man on the 'American' quality totem pole anyway - followed by Ford and then GM perhaps on the top - but also a manufacturer that consistently was more innovative and styling conscious than the other two. 8-10 years ago (and earlier) there was a lot of solid reasons for this bias you oft mention, nowadays these 'perceived' quality differences have largely disappeared as far as assembly quality is concerned, and reside mostly in the drivetrains in which there simply is no comparison (yet) - and add to that these 'American' companies that continue to put more and more Americans out of work while the 'Japanese' cos. do exactly the opposite...
#1471 of 6854 Re: any difference between chinese and Korean cars? [joe131]
Mar 29, 2007 (6:33 am)
You are very right. However, my arguement was that the HP wars didn't really start until the intro duction of the '02 Altima. I mean...the Altima went from boring, unassuming and bland to an instant track star! Honda took notice immediately and pumped the Accord up to compete. Toyota on the other hand took another 4 years to decide to join the others, but only after the introduction of the '06 Sonata (since that was in direct competition with the Camry)...they felt they couldn't be outdone by Hyundai.
Prior to '02...it wasn't even about HP, it was more about who had the most durable product. Which one could design the better looking car. If you remember...the Maxima, Cressida, Camry and even the Avalon shared the same basic look. No, they didn't look alike, but you could tell that they were competing with each other with no doubt!!!
Now it seems the standard for mid-sized cars is HP on the high 200's...seemingly moving towards the 300 HP range. Anything less...would be uncivilized!
#1472 of 6854 Re: any difference between chinese and Korean cars? [allmet33]
Mar 29, 2007 (6:41 am)
they felt they couldn't be outdone by Hyundai.
That's really not the reason. Toyota was taking its time to develop a kick-a** V6 called 2GR.
#1473 of 6854 ??? Chinese vs Korean ???
Mar 29, 2007 (6:51 am)
From the looks of this column it seems that we have seen the Japanese, German, American, and Korean autos discussed, but where are the Chinese??? Sorry guys, but if you aren't going to discuss things by the title, then change the title. I too am interested in all of these others, but I was looking for something that related to the Chinese vs Korean autos, where is that information found? All it takes is a few strokes of the keyboard to make the change.
#1474 of 6854 Re: ??? Chinese vs Korean ??? [lightfootfl]
Mar 29, 2007 (6:59 am)
The Chinese have yet to bring a car to market in the US.
That is supposed to change in the near future.
#1475 of 6854 Re: any difference between chinese and Korean cars? [louiswei]
Mar 29, 2007 (7:41 am)
If you say so. Toyota had gotten too complacent in it's place in the industry. There was nothing progressive about them at all. Like I said, it wasn't until Hyundai dropped the '06 Sonata that Toyota felt they had to do something to keep up.
Maybe it started with the dropping of the '02 Altima and it took Toyota 4 years to finally come up with something to contend. The point is...it's taken Toyota a while to finally realize they had to keep up.
It's also a well known fact that Toyota is looking over their shoulder at Hyundai because they are realizing that Hyundai is quickly becoming a viable contender and instead of the Big 3, it'll be the Big 4.