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The Tesla Roadster - Electric Car

259 messages,  Last post on Jul 09, 2012 at 7:04 AM

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What is this discussion about? Tesla Roadster, Alternative Fuels, Concept Cars, Future Vehicle, Coupe, Convertible

Messages Page 24 of 26

#230 of 259 Re: The Tesla Roadster [beast56r2] by tpe

Nov 29, 2007 (6:22 am)

Replying to: beast56r2 (Nov 28, 2007 11:23 pm)
I like what Tesla is doing but I think they've made a few missteps along the way. First the timing of their PR/hype was based upon them delivering the first Roadsters last Spring. Now it won't be until next Spring, which will make it a little anti-climatic. Their previous CEO, Martin Eberhard, stepped down a few months ago. I've been reading a lot about this company for the last 2 1/2 years and I really got the sense he was definitely the driving force that was going to bring this car to the market. If you read his most recent interviews you get the sense that he's been somewhat beaten down. I think primarily by all the regulatory hurdles that you must jump through. Hopefully who's ever running the company now posesses his same level of energy and enthusiasm. Finally, I think they chose the wrong battery technology. They're using the Li-ion Cobalt batteries, the same type found in laptops. These do posess the highest energy density but they have drawbacks. They put off a lot of heat, making a substantial cooling system a must. They cost more per kWh. They have the potential for thermal runaway. They do not last as long. This is why Toyota has delayed putting Li-ion batteries in the Prius because this was the chemistry that they were pursuing. They've since changed course and are now looking at the type of Li-ion battery GM will be using in the Volt. No cobalt, less heat, cheaper, safer, longer lasting. I believe this is also why Think Nordic has reconsidered using Teslas battery packs and has instead chosen EnerDel to be their supplier.
 
With all that said I believe that Tesla's best chance of long term survival is to be bought out by an established automanufacturer. I do really like the Roadster and no matter what happens they've done a great job at reviving interest in EVs and changing the "glorified golf cart" perception.

#231 of 259 Re: The Tesla Roadster [tpe] by knightskye

Nov 29, 2007 (5:45 pm)

Replying to: tpe (Nov 29, 2007 6:22 am)
  • With all that said I believe that Tesla's best chance of long term survival is to be bought out by an established automanufacturer.

    •  
    You mean an "established automaker" like Ford, which sold its electric car subsidiary to a Norwegian investment group? They tried electric cars, but didn't know how to market them. I'm going to have to disagree with you there. Their best bet is to stay as they are. They don't need to be bought out and shut down by one of the big players.
     
    I don't think the battery thing is an issue. Is Schwartzenegger or Clooney complaining about their batteries? If they changed the battery before they release the car, it's not a problem. That's a benefit of the development stage. You get to correct problems before you start selling the product.
     
    Nintendo released Zelda: Twilight Princess more than a year after they announced to (correct me if I'm wrong). When it came out, it wasn't anti-climactic. They did great. And it's still doing great. So just because the release is delayed doesn't mean the product will do poorly.
     
    Is GM, Ford, Toyota, Chrysler, or any other automaker's CEO better or more qualified to handle the Roadster or any future projects? And why are you being so negative about someone who doesn't even exist? We don't know who's taking Eberhard's place, so we shouldn't insult him by saying he's not qualified.

    #232 of 259 Re: The Tesla Roadster [knightskye] by beast56r2

    Nov 29, 2007 (10:33 pm)

    Replying to: knightskye (Nov 29, 2007 5:45 pm)
    Exactly, development is just that development. Teething problems are bound to crop up with anything that is new to the market, from autos to the very Operating System on the PC you are using right now. In fact, do you realize there are hundreds of auto recalls are ongoing daily for both new, and older domestic vehicles now on the road that no-one but the dealerships know about, and that these problems are corrected on the sly when the vehicles are brought in for service. The majority of people don't know about them because they don't get any press unless a problem arises as a result. If you don't believe me you need to become good friends with the service manager at your local dealership, like me. When he shows you the service recall binder that is 10 inches thick you will be amazed. So technical issues are a moot point.
     
    The main point is that if Tesla succeeds, whether it be sooner or later, it will force the hand of the Big Three in Detroit to stop dragging their feet. If a small fledgling company like Tesla can do something like this, what could GM, Ford, or Chrysler with all their worldwide resources do if they really wanted to.

    #233 of 259 Re: The Tesla Roadster [knightskye] by tpe

    Nov 30, 2007 (8:53 am)

    Replying to: knightskye (Nov 29, 2007 5:45 pm)
    And why are you being so negative about someone who doesn't even exist?
     
    What are you talking about. My comment was that I hope Eberhard's successor has the same level of enthusiasm. How is that interpreted as negative.
     
    A lot of Tesla's engineering has gone into designing this battery pack. I don't see them suddenly changing to a different Li-ion chemistry with significantly different characteristic. And if they chose to do this it would not be as trivial as you make it sound. A lot of new testing would have to take place. So I believe Tesla will stick with what they've got even though, IMO, it is not the best for an automotive application.
     
    I don't know if you've noticed but Tesla is seriously dragging their feet on opening a manufacturing facility in Albuquerque, NM for their White Star sedan. This was supposed to happen some time ago. Their excuse is that they are still in the design phase. My guess is that they're in the need cash phase. I applaud Tesla for what they're trying to do and I sincerely hope for their success but I'm starting to see it as a long shot. Their best chance would have been to get out of the gate early. That's slipping away.

    #234 of 259 Re: The Tesla Roadster [beast56r2] by tpe

    Nov 30, 2007 (9:02 am)

    Replying to: beast56r2 (Nov 29, 2007 10:33 pm)
    it will force the hand of the Big Three in Detroit to stop dragging their feet
     
    GM's program to produce the Chevy Volt definitely seems to be on the fast track, no feet dragging. This is an EV and in many ways more significant than the Tesla since it will be affordable to a far bigger segment of the population. The Tesla Roadsters significance is primarily as a high profile showpiece that generates a lot of awareness for EVs and what they are capable of.

    #235 of 259 Re: The Tesla Roadster [tpe] by gagrice

    Nov 30, 2007 (6:34 pm)

    Replying to: tpe (Nov 30, 2007 8:53 am)
    I'm with you on this one. Tesla has a lot more to worry about than the Big 3 buying and burying them. The EPA will put them through financial hell with expensive crash tests etc. A small car company will have a hard time making it in this country. That ZENN company in Canada is a good example. They are being blocked by the Canadian government at every step. I think that is why Eberhard got out. He spent a lot of money, time and energy and it was going no where. The batteries he chose were doomed from the start. You cannot take a chance on batteries that can explode under charge. Ask Sony that recalled a million of their laptop batteries of that same design. EPA, NHTSA and CARB will do more to stop the advent of an Electric vehicle than the Big 3 and oil companies combined. They will regulate them into oblivion.

    #236 of 259 Re: The Tesla Roadster [tpe] by knightskye

    Dec 04, 2007 (11:40 am)

    Replying to: tpe (Nov 30, 2007 8:53 am)
    What are you talking about. My comment was that I hope Eberhard's successor has the same level of enthusiasm. How is that interpreted as negative.
     
    You had it listed as a "misstep" in your post. I figure if something is a misstep, it couldn't be positive.

    #237 of 259 Re: The Tesla Roadster [knightskye] by tpe

    Dec 05, 2007 (8:38 am)

    Replying to: knightskye (Dec 04, 2007 11:40 am)
    Well Tesla's finally found a new CEO, his name is Ze'ev Drori. Eberhard has removed himself from the board of directors and given up his executive management duties. I just see it as a bad sign when the founder of a company decides to jump ship. Tesla's website states that he will still have a role in an advisory capacity but as far as I'm concerned that's just spin.

    #238 of 259 Re: The Tesla Roadster [tpe] by gagrice

    Dec 05, 2007 (10:45 pm)

    Replying to: tpe (Dec 05, 2007 8:38 am)
    I think his heart was in the right place. I just do not see how anyone would take the Tesla seriously. With its 6000 AA batteries or whatever the huge count was. It would be a maintenance nightmare. Battery cells go bad individually. Keeping track of which ones need to be replaced sent my mind into overload. For some no brains actor it would be NO problem. They drive it and when it stops they get AAA to tow it back to the shop. I look for a company like Mitsubishi or Nissan to give us a practical EV in the next 5 years. No one else has the deep pockets to R&D the batteries. Toyota is disallusioned with hybrids.

    #239 of 259 Re: The Tesla Roadster [gagrice] by tpe

    Dec 10, 2007 (5:30 pm)

    Replying to: gagrice (Dec 05, 2007 10:45 pm)
    Apparently Eberhard didn't quit, he was basically fired.
    tesla

    Messages Page 24 of 26

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