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The Tesla Roadster - Electric Car

251 messages,  Last post on Aug 22, 2008 at 4:34 PM

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What is this discussion about? Tesla Roadster, Alternative Fuels, Concept Cars, Future Vehicle, Coupe, Convertible


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#222 of 251
Re: The Tesla at $50,000 ???? [tpe] by michael2003
Jun 29, 2007 (2:08 am)
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Replying to: tpe (Jun 28, 2007 4:25 am)

It will be nice to have more options available in the form of plug in hybrids. Personally, although I think BEVS will be the long term solution, I think that PHEV's will be the best short term solution. All we need is the price of the batteries that have a large number of recharge cycles available to be affordable/available (I'm thinking Altair, A123, or EEStor).
#223 of 251
Re: The Tesla at $50,000 ???? [michael2003] by tpe
Jun 29, 2007 (4:14 am)
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Replying to: michael2003 (Jun 29, 2007 2:08 am)

The first Teslas should be delivered in a few months. It will be interesting to see what kind of reduction in charge capacity these owners experience after a year. IMO, it needs to be under 5% for those battery packs to have much of a future.
 
While I hope that I'm wrong I have serious doubts that we'll see anything from EEStor in the near future.
#224 of 251
Re: The Tesla at $50,000 ???? [tpe] by knightskye
Jun 29, 2007 (7:18 pm)
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Replying to: tpe (Jun 29, 2007 4:14 am)

"It will be interesting to see what kind of reduction in charge capacity these owners experience after a year. "
 
Well, assuming they don't drive their Roadster 100,000 miles the first year, none. They said 500 recharges, and at 200 miles, that's 100,000 miles of no reduction in charge capacity. After that, they said reduction would be minimal. What I'm wondering is the average period of time when owners have to replace the battery, since it currently costs about, what, $20,000? Whatever. If they can afford the car, they can afford to buy another battery after 7-8 years of use.
 
I think we will see something from EEStor. They're keeping a low profile. So low there's only like, three articles about them, heh. They just don't want people going nuts about them until there's something to go nuts about. We have other options if they don't deliver.
#225 of 251
Re: The Tesla at $50,000 ???? [knightskye] by gagrice
Jun 29, 2007 (7:43 pm)
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Replying to: knightskye (Jun 29, 2007 7:18 pm)

If you plug your Tesla in every night that is not even a year and a half of recharges. If you go from a full charge to dead you get 200+ miles. Most will not try to run it out to the max. I also was under the impression the Li-Ion batteries in the Tesla were $50K plus. Batteries for the ancient RAV4 EV were right at $30k and they are the much cheaper NiMH.
#226 of 251
Re: The Tesla at $50,000 ???? [gagrice] by michael2003
Jun 30, 2007 (6:28 am)
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Replying to: gagrice (Jun 29, 2007 7:43 pm)

Tesla has stated that the battery system currently runs about 20k and they estimate that a replacement system with a larger range capacity should be around 12k by the time a replacement is needed. Of course, we need to acknowledge that the future is speculative and it could be either much better or worse and we just won't know for sure until we get there. If the PHEV and BEV market takes off, I believe it will greatly increase the likelihood that the future will be much better price/capacity wise.
#227 of 251
Re: The Tesla at $50,000 ???? [gagrice] by tpe
Jul 02, 2007 (5:05 am)
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Replying to: gagrice (Jun 29, 2007 7:43 pm)

If you plug your Tesla in every night that is not even a year and a half of recharges
 
A charge cycle is defined by a complete discharge/charge. If you plug it in at night and the battery pack still had 4/5ths of its charge left then you would have only used up 1/5 of a cycle that night. With Li-ion I don't think that number of charge cycles is the big question mark. It's calendar life.
#228 of 251
Re: The Tesla at $50,000 ???? [tpe] by gagrice
Jul 02, 2007 (5:57 am)
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Replying to: tpe (Jul 02, 2007 5:05 am)

That would be my guess also. I doubt you would completely discharge the battery very often. You would have it floating at full charge most of the time if you plug it in whenever you are not driving it.
#229 of 251
The Tesla Roadster by beast56r2
Nov 28, 2007 (10:23 pm)
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Sure the Tesla Roadster is pricey, but what limited production, hand built auto isn't. I mean let's keep it in perspective. The Viper goes for $85,000.00 plus. Then if you get into the exotics, $98,000.00 will get you a test drive. Battery technology has jumped immensely in the last 5 years, just ask the guy who races electric R/C cars for a hobby. What will the next 5 years bring? The Tesla roadster is a quantum step in the right direction, and the approach they are taking makes sense. Proceeds from the roadster will be used to R&D a car for the masses, and might this just be the spark to light a fire under the Big Three's collective posteriors. I mean, would they really want to be shown up by some upstart new car company. As far as being bought out by someone else, at this point I kind of doubt it as Tesla Motors is getting the attention of all the right people, including the politicians in Washington D.C. There are definetely some people that believe in the project, if not why would the guy responsible for creating Paypal have invested $37 million of his own money. I have to be optimistic, after all I am sick and tired of being raped and gouged by the oil companies for over 30 years, and having a government that won't do anything about it. I applaud Tesla Motors for their efforts.
#230 of 251
Re: The Tesla Roadster [beast56r2] by tpe
Nov 29, 2007 (5:22 am)
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Replying to: beast56r2 (Nov 28, 2007 10:23 pm)

I like what Tesla is doing but I think they've made a few missteps along the way. First the timing of their PR/hype was based upon them delivering the first Roadsters last Spring. Now it won't be until next Spring, which will make it a little anti-climatic. Their previous CEO, Martin Eberhard, stepped down a few months ago. I've been reading a lot about this company for the last 2 1/2 years and I really got the sense he was definitely the driving force that was going to bring this car to the market. If you read his most recent interviews you get the sense that he's been somewhat beaten down. I think primarily by all the regulatory hurdles that you must jump through. Hopefully who's ever running the company now posesses his same level of energy and enthusiasm. Finally, I think they chose the wrong battery technology. They're using the Li-ion Cobalt batteries, the same type found in laptops. These do posess the highest energy density but they have drawbacks. They put off a lot of heat, making a substantial cooling system a must. They cost more per kWh. They have the potential for thermal runaway. They do not last as long. This is why Toyota has delayed putting Li-ion batteries in the Prius because this was the chemistry that they were pursuing. They've since changed course and are now looking at the type of Li-ion battery GM will be using in the Volt. No cobalt, less heat, cheaper, safer, longer lasting. I believe this is also why Think Nordic has reconsidered using Teslas battery packs and has instead chosen EnerDel to be their supplier.
 
With all that said I believe that Tesla's best chance of long term survival is to be bought out by an established automanufacturer. I do really like the Roadster and no matter what happens they've done a great job at reviving interest in EVs and changing the "glorified golf cart" perception.
#231 of 251
Re: The Tesla Roadster [tpe] by knightskye
Nov 29, 2007 (4:45 pm)
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Replying to: tpe (Nov 29, 2007 5:22 am)

  • With all that said I believe that Tesla's best chance of long term survival is to be bought out by an established automanufacturer.

  •  
    You mean an "established automaker" like Ford, which sold its electric car subsidiary to a Norwegian investment group? They tried electric cars, but didn't know how to market them. I'm going to have to disagree with you there. Their best bet is to stay as they are. They don't need to be bought out and shut down by one of the big players.
     
    I don't think the battery thing is an issue. Is Schwartzenegger or Clooney complaining about their batteries? If they changed the battery before they release the car, it's not a problem. That's a benefit of the development stage. You get to correct problems before you start selling the product.
     
    Nintendo released Zelda: Twilight Princess more than a year after they announced to (correct me if I'm wrong). When it came out, it wasn't anti-climactic. They did great. And it's still doing great. So just because the release is delayed doesn't mean the product will do poorly.
     
    Is GM, Ford, Toyota, Chrysler, or any other automaker's CEO better or more qualified to handle the Roadster or any future projects? And why are you being so negative about someone who doesn't even exist? We don't know who's taking Eberhard's place, so we shouldn't insult him by saying he's not qualified.

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