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The Tesla Roadster - Electric Car

251 messages,  Last post on Aug 22, 2008 at 4:34 PM

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What is this discussion about? Tesla Roadster, Alternative Fuels, Concept Cars, Future Vehicle, Coupe, Convertible


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#182 of 251
Re: weeeeell [reddroverr] by tpe
Nov 22, 2006 (2:23 pm)
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Replying to: reddroverr (Nov 22, 2006 1:02 pm)

I'd guess the replacement cost for the Tesla battery pack is upwards of $40k. If BEVs become more common place this is where the biggest savings will occur because the price of this type of battery should drop significantly due to economies of scale. If ultra-capacitors ever live up to their hype it won't matter how much they cost because they will never wear out.
#183 of 251
Re: weeeeell [tpe] by reddroverr
Nov 22, 2006 (6:03 pm)
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Replying to: tpe (Nov 22, 2006 2:23 pm)

I've heard 40k bandied about. How is that arrived at?
I don't know what their cost structure is, perhaps they lose money on every roadster made. But to do these small production runs using a purchased Lotus chassis and pretty much customizing the rest, has to be pretty expensive...if you are arriving at it by trying to back out costs from a total. I may ask Tesla again and this time be a "potential customer."
 
MSRP on a Viper is $85k and up.
#184 of 251
Re: weeeeell [reddroverr] by tpe
Nov 22, 2006 (7:21 pm)
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Replying to: reddroverr (Nov 22, 2006 6:03 pm)

The Tesla Roadster has a 50 kWh Li-ion battery pack. The few companies that sell these type of large format batteries quote prices of around $1k per kWh so when I said $40k for the Tesla pack I was being conservative. Tesla is not making much money, if any, on these initial cars, IMO, they are looking towards the future.
 
I'd take the Tesla over the Viper in a heartbeat.
#185 of 251
Re: weeeeell [tpe] by reddroverr
Nov 23, 2006 (7:12 pm)
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Replying to: tpe (Nov 22, 2006 7:21 pm)

I've found that the Tesla pack contains a qty of 6800, Li- Ion 18650 cells. I've found these retail on the web for $7.25 ea for 2400mAh and $5.29 ea for 2200mAh. I don't know if tesla adds a lot of value to these in term of what they do and additional hardware they might apply. Also I don't know about the quality of the product I priced.
 
Probably pretty safe to say that the pack costs at least $25k+...taking into consideration the quantity purchased.
#186 of 251
Project WhiteStar: Tesla Announces Plans for High-Performance Sport Sedan by rockylee
Jan 30, 2007 (12:20 pm)
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ROCHESTER HILLS, Mich. — Electric-vehicle maker Tesla Motors used the opening of its new technical center here on Friday to announce the launch of Project WhiteStar. Its goal is to develop and produce a five-passenger high-performance sedan, expected to reach the market around 2009.
 
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=119384
 
Rocky
#187 of 251
... How About a "PIER" by roland3
Feb 08, 2007 (6:01 am)
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... A "Plug In Extended Range", taking half the battery weight and expense off a car like the Tesla and installing a lightweight genset, say 300 CC's (18 cubic inch) preferably Diesel, might be a good idea while we are waiting for that superconductive type breakthrough.
... So you are going on a trip in excess of 125 miles, well here is one thing the computers are not doing yet. At the start of this trip you run both batt and genset power, after two hours the genset should have added 40 to 50 percent charge. This should be near 200 mile range.
... This would also save quite a bit of time looking for a charging location any time you were stoped on these rare trips. Yes, it has it's limitations. What is that old saying about making all the people happy all of the time or that pursuit there of.
... Allright, you left the vehicle in long term parking for three days with the lights on and when you open the door your not quite sure if that's a reflection or the domelight is on, but the genset does crank; however this (with some sophisticated switching to not charge the batts at this time) will only run the car 15 MPH, but it gets you accross the street to a restaurant where you leave the genset run for an hour or more and viola 20 to 25 percent charge, might get you home if you live 30 or less miles away.
#188 of 251
Re: ... How About a "PIER" [roland3] by tpe
Feb 08, 2007 (10:36 am)
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Replying to: roland3 (Feb 08, 2007 6:01 am)

That doesn't sound significantly different than what GM is planning with the Chevy Volt. The major difference is that the Volt will have a generator capable of actually re-charging the battery while you're driving, not just reducing its rate of depletion. In addition the Volt's generator would only kick in when the battery fell below a certain charge level. So regardless of the length of your trip you would always be using the minimum amount of fuel. GM says that battery technology isn't quite there yet. I think the people at Tesla would disagree. Now I agree that battery affordability isn't there yet, at least not for the mainstream even in this reduced battery pack configuration.
#189 of 251
Re: ... How About a "PIER" [tpe] by reddroverr
Feb 08, 2007 (2:47 pm)
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Replying to: tpe (Feb 08, 2007 10:36 am)

I guess it will depend on how the battery price and power play out as to how big the engines will be. 40 electric miles a day translates to 14,600 a year. Folks who could plug in at work could get up to an 80 mile commute on electric. Granted, we don't drive the same amount every day, but that would certainly make the ICE or diesel power mode pretty scantilly used for most folks. I bet some people who filled their tanks might have to worry because they use so little that the same gas might be in the tank long enough to turn bad and clog their system.
 
Even the 50 mpg in gas mode would be a quarter to a half less fuel used for most.
 
Not saying anything new here. I want to see these cars of various modes on the road and competing. Can't wait.
#190 of 251
Re: ... How About a "PIER" [reddroverr] by tpe
Feb 08, 2007 (3:17 pm)
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Replying to: reddroverr (Feb 08, 2007 2:47 pm)

I want to see these cars of various modes on the road and competing. Can't wait.
 
I don't think the wait will be that long. Within a couple of years we should also have a lot more high mpg diesels to choose from and maybe even some diesel hybrids. So something for everyone. And when the government suggest higher CAFE the auto-manufacturers can respond, "hey, the vehicles are out there, now make people want them".
#191 of 251
Re: ... How About a "PIER" [tpe] by michael2003
Feb 09, 2007 (5:24 am)
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Replying to: tpe (Feb 08, 2007 10:36 am)

I keep hoping that GM comes around to acknowledging that the battery technology actually is here now, but using today's technology will require them to increase their planned battery capacity to allow for a longer EV range in order to have an acceptable number of recharge cycles to ensure a reasonable battery lifetime.
By the time the car is ready for production, I feel confident that the price would also be at a reasonable point, perhaps even to allowing options for increased EV only range to keep price down for short range commuters but allow longer EV commute for others as they wish.
 
In summary, I see no reason for GM to express any doubts about the possibility of the vehicle being made production ready and available sooner rather than later.

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