Last post on Jul 09, 2012 at 6:04 AM
You are in the Electric Vehicles
What is this discussion about?
Tesla Roadster, Alternative Fuels, Concept Cars, Future Vehicle, Coupe, Convertible
#16 of 259 Re: Tesla Roadster - Electric car that can beat a Porsche [john500]
Jul 26, 2006 (7:01 am)
To be fair, the sales rep referred to the cars as her kids because the process to get one was as hard (and as much paperwork!) as an adoption, GM provided so few cars for lease that the sales reps developed a personal relationship with all of their customers, and both she and her customers loved the car. I know because my parents got an EV-1 from the woman in the film, and thought she was wonderful to deal with. They were very unhappy they couldn't extend their lease and they were one of the parties that wrote a check to GM to buy the last EV1s along with absolving GM of all responsibility for future support. They were hopeful because Ford sold some of their EV Rangers off lease to avoid the publicity that GM got. GM didn't care and spent the money to crush them rather than take two million for them.
BTW, Tesla was somewhat of a stealth program and caught people off guard. They aren't the only ones. There will be more. Mitsubishi has some interesting cars in the works, and has moved up their timetable form 2010 to 2008. Search on Mitsubishi MIEV, it's pretty cool. Altair Nanotechnologies has made some very intriguing claims with their Li-ion batteries, and has signed an agreement to provide batteries for a fleet pickup truck being developed by Phoenix Motorcars. Wrightspeed. Tzero. The EV is gaining momentum, and Detroit is insignificant.
#17 of 259 Re: Tesla Roadster - Electric car that can beat a Porsche [prm1]
Jul 26, 2006 (8:14 am)
The EV is gaining momentum, and Detroit is insignificant
I agree. I just hope that gas prices remain high so that this momentum keeps building.
I also agree that Detroit is insignificant and getting more so every year. I believe that Tesla Motors will make money for its investors. The fact that a few entrepreneurs with zero experience in auto manufacturing can do something that the major manufacturers couldn't speaks volumes. Or maybe they could have but deliberately chose not to.
I was on another thread expressing my opinion that EVs are the future. A common response was that the executives at Toyota and Honda have clearly demonstrated themselves to possess a savvy business sense. If there was money to be made manufacturing and selling EVs these people would be the first to realize it. We'll see. Like you said, Detroit is insignificant and the fact that they aren't pursuing EVs kind of validates the idea in a backhand way.
#18 of 259 Re: it is... [objectiveview]
Jul 26, 2006 (10:50 am)
The batteries can be legally disposed of in a landfill. The responsible Tesla ower would have em recycled. A significant %age of the battery can be recycled. There are many hybrids out there with over 200,000 miles using an older technology batteries. I believe the batteries on the Tesla Roadster batteries will last at lest 250,000 miles.
#19 of 259 Re: Tesla Roadster - Electric car that can beat a Porsche [tpe]
Jul 26, 2006 (11:00 am)
I'm also amused at the push for hydrogen. The fact that GM is taking out full page ads showing some future hydrogen car next to a Shell hydrogen pump is a pretty clear sign it is a sham. They are both scrambling to maintain the status quo. Shell would desperately love for you to still have to go to them for fuel, and would hate anything you can plugin at home. GM can keep selling ICE that runs with hydrogen, and not change too much. They both know that hydrogen is 10-15 years off (and billions of dollars for infrastructure), and the advancements in batteries and nano-capacitors over that time will make hydrogen a dead issue.
#20 of 259 Re: Tesla Roadster - Electric car that can beat a Porsche [prm1]
Jul 26, 2006 (5:01 pm)
Hydrogen is a sham. It basically adds a layer of inefficiency (i.e. the fuel cell and the mess related to hydrogen) to the vehicle, relative to the electric vehicle. However, a large amount of energy infrastructure must be created from non-hydrocarbon based fuels to make electric vehicles beneficial from a greenhouse gas perspective. Electric vehicles and hybrids are the most promising technologies. In fact, used responsibly, gasoline is a reasonably viable technology (ie small diesels and gas powered engines can get > 50 mpg if the vehicle weight is kept < 1500 lbs). Although not directly stated, I inferred from the movie that specific members from the state level of government were the primary contributors to burying the EV1. Clearly, "big oil" is not completely innocent, however, their role seemed to be reasonably minor compared to the egos at GM and state and federal politics. Presumably, the loss of gasoline taxation revenue was the motivating factor. I assume this tax money is already spent up to 2050.
#21 of 259 Re: Tesla Roadster - Electric car that can beat a Porsche [prm1]
Jul 27, 2006 (4:01 am)
Honda has leased a few hydrogen fuel cell vehicles (Civics) so that they can obtain real world test data and feedback. These cars cost something like 1 million dollars each. Tesla has plans to introduce a more mainstream EV in the next 2 years. It will 4 door sedan. I've heard it will be in the $50k price range.
Clearly neither of these cars will have mass appeal at the present time given their price tag. The rational is that with advancements in technology and economies of scale the prices will come down. Let's say the price needs to be around $25k in order for either of these cars to be mainstream vehicles. So the fuel cell vehicle needs to go from $1,000,000 to $25,000 and the EV needs to get from $50,000 to $25,000. And this doesn't take into account the massive infrastructure that will need to be built to support fuel cell vehicles.
It really seems like a no-brainer when it comes to which path should be taken. Its like having to go from California to Arizona and wondering whether you should head east or west. Both directions will eventually get you there but one is considerably shorter.