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Hybrid Vehicles Toyota Prius What to expect from the next model year Prius
311 messages, Last post on Apr 26, 2009 at 5:43 AM
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Replying to: kdhspyder (Jan 13, 2009 8:29 am) I don't think you will get any new converts to the 2010 Prius. It looks essentially the same and will appeal to the same crowd. It is hard to argue with the fact that people that have them love them. I'm still waiting for the plug-in Sequoia Hybrid that gets 42 MPG combined. California will get their way with the new EPA and that is the mandate for fleet mileage. I need to get my last final diesel SUV before the curtain falls.
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Replying to: gagrice (Jan 17, 2009 6:57 am)  My buddy who also posts here just hit 226,000 miles on it's 5th anniversay...when he gave me his order for Prius No 3. He wants the first one we get as long as it's black and doesn't have leather. It appears that the frame is underpinned by a tubular stabilzer and it runs on wider tires. There is also an option for even wider lower-profile 17" tires. The peak of the roof is moved back over the back seat. The vehicle is about 100# heavier with a larger engine and a few additional amenitites on the standard versions. The big difference is that is will be somewhat quicker and go from 46 mpg EPA combined to about 50 mpg EPA comined. They went with the larger engine to make it more capable in fuel efficiency at the highway at higher US-Interstate-type speeds. The 1.8L is better mated to the size and weight of the vehicle than the 1.5L was. The additional drivetrain features ( EV, ECON, PWR ) will only improve the power or the fuel economy. |
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Replying to: gagrice (Jan 17, 2009 6:57 am)  . Actually we had about 30 a month ago but that's down to about 8 now. But like every other survivor we're just looking to cut inventory as well as fixed costs. I'm guessing that this will be the strategy throughout all of 2009. If GM's recent estimate is accurate then instead of 16 MM units we may be approaching 10 MM units.....with a 3 MM unit inventory carryover... bad juju there. That means that production may only reach 7-8 MM units in 2009. 2009 is going to be a downer for everyone in every product line.
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Replying to: kdhspyder (Jan 17, 2009 1:21 pm) http://www.edmunds.com/inventory/vin.html?year=&make=Toyota&model=Prius
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Replying to: gagrice (Jan 17, 2009 3:31 pm) But...it should be a huge hit because it will fall right in the sweetest part of the buying public's vision. At $18500 to $20500 it will appeal to a lot of buyers who have passed on the hybrids up until now. I think that it will do more damage to vehicles like the Corolla, Mazda3, Focus, Cobalt and non-hybrid Civic in this price range because it will get a real world 42-43 mpg day-in and day-out. That's well above the 33-ish mpg that those other non-hybrids get. The vehicle is very very tight in back. But I haven't driven one yet and nobody except the reviewers has even seen one.
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Replying to: kdhspyder (Jan 18, 2009 10:41 am) I do think some people will cross-shop both the Insight and Prius, just because they are looking for a hybrid hatchback that can seat at least 2 kids in back. I will probably shop both when I get our next long term car in 3-4 years. It remains to be seen whether that cross-shopping will happen in any numbers and if there will be any price pressure on the base price of the Prius because of it. |
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Replying to: kdhspyder (Jan 18, 2009 10:41 am) This is not quite true. The Insight II is larger than the Fit by 11" in overall length and 2" in wheelbase. It has a completely different body also. The rear seat is where the Prius vs. Insight show the greatest difference in size with the Prius offering mid-size rear seat room and the Insight is clearly compact. I believe the Insight will bleed off significant Prius sales with it's $6K price advantage. Overall performance is similar and real world MPG will likely be very close. The areas the Prius beats the Insight is one level in size (only an issue if you regularly carry 3 people or more) and amenities (which for $6K in the 2009 economy is hard to justify). Honda has beaten Toyota in this new game. While Toyota's refinement will pay off with some buyers, I bet most will opt for the true value that this Honda offers.
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Replying to: dodgeman07 (Jan 18, 2009 11:43 am)  $24000 - $26000 and certainly not at $29000. The very-frugal or just-starting-out buyers don't want to or can't spend $25K for any vehicle. So til now they've opted NOT to buy the Prius at all. This is the group that will embrace the Insight II. The current buyers of the Prius are an entirely different demographic with entirely different expectations. They expect to pay $25000 - $35000 or more for their vehicles and they are capable of doing that. Others like me are not interested in a compact vehicle at any price or fuel saving. The two will be cross-shopped but the differences will be clear shortly. Those who will naturally gravitate toward the Insigt II will do so and those want something more will gravitate toward the Prius. The Insight II is somewhat under the current Gen Prius but significantly behind the Gen 3 Prius. But since this is such a huge market there is room for both easily. As you note though the pricing differences in this current economy are significantly in Honda's favor. If everybody gets religion and damn the amenities then the Insight will shine even brighter. But then there's 2,3 and 5 yrs from now. Honda is limited by its technology ( for now ) to smaller more basic vehicles. It can't really scale it's IMA up to midsized vehicles very well. At some point in the near future the market will stabilize and return to a form of normalcy.
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Replying to: kdhspyder (Jan 18, 2009 12:02 pm) There are also buyers who need the extra rear legroom of the Prius or want some other feature only the Prius offers, e.g. its electronic gagetry. And they are willing to pay for it. They won't cross-shop the Insight. They may cross-shop the Camry Hybrid and Fusion Hybrid, if they can live with a sedan. As for the "huge market"... it isn't that huge. It was just over 300,000 vehicles for 2008, with the first half of 2008 being excellent for hybrids, with super-high gas prices and the economy not yet fully tanked. Now in 2009, the economy is really in the dumpster and gas prices remain low. Prius was over half of the hybrid market in 2008. Honda is shooting for 100,000 Insight sales per year. That's a lot of sales to absorb in a terrible market. I think many of those sales will be taken away from the Prius.
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Replying to: kdhspyder (Jan 18, 2009 12:02 pm) I agree with this statement but many use Hybrids as their 2nd car. Myself? The Insight is too small for me being a single owner of one vehicle. I would consider a Prius but can't justify $26-28K for the gain over a non-hybrid at $20-$22K. My brother-in-law however, planned to buy an '09 Prius and now is having second thoughts. The price advantage of the Insight is too great to ignore. With similar equipment levels we're talking about over $6K. That's a lot of money to all but the wealthiest people out there. Time will tell but Toyota is not nearly as well positioned with their product mix as they were just one year ago. They will fill that gap by 2011 with an entry level hydrid and a much improved Yaris. They are too good a company not to give the market what it wants. P.S. I believe we'll see a lot of HS250h's on the road by 2011 if they can keep under $35K loaded. |
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