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Toyota Prius, Hybrid Cars, Car Buying, Hatchback, Sedan
#179 of 311 Re: seats [bigmclargehuge]
May 21, 2008 (8:07 pm)
I was talking about Toyota and the Prius OEMs ( meaning Prius OEM equipment ). This is a Prius board. Reading comp problems again?
However I do see where you might have been confused by the wording. To be precise.... There have been no LRRTs on the Prius model since the end of the Gen 1s in Sept 2003.
This subject was about the Prius nothing else. You jumped the Yukon/Tahoe into it somehow and for some unknown reason.
#180 of 311 Re: seats [bigmclargehuge]
May 21, 2008 (8:13 pm)
I knew exactly what I was doing. I compared the old 2008 Corolla model to the old 2008 Prius model to show the similarity in tires in order to confirm what has been true for the past 5 yrs.
Yes for two months the new Corolla model has larger tires and we'll have to wait for the new Prius model next summer to finish the comparison.
But your two original statements were faulty and not founded in fact. That's all I wanted to prove. Just be precise and don't let bias get in the way of a rational viewpoint.
#181 of 311 Re: seats [bigmclargehuge]
May 21, 2008 (8:41 pm)
Well from your comment I know that you didn't read the discussion on the website so again I'll do the work for you and give you the relevant quote...
Congressional interest has also indicated a need for a more comprehensive review of the NCAP.
In April of 2005, the Government Accountability Office (GAO) published a report based on its study of NCAP.9 The study examined the impact of NCAP on vehicle safety and investigated opportunities to enhance its effectiveness. The GAO’s general recommendations were that “NHTSA examine the direction of the New Car Assessment Program to ensure that it maintains its relevance in improving vehicle safety, including identifying tests that best address the fatalities occurring on the nation’s roads,” and that “NHTSA enhance the presentation and timeliness of the information provided to the public.” More specifically, the GAO cited the recent abundance of four- and five-star ratings and suggested that pending changes to
compliance testing that would render NCAP’s tests less meaningful. It also pointed out that NHTSA must update NCAP to stay current with changes in the characteristics of the fleet.
NHTSA generally agreed with GAO’s findings.
Reading between the lines for those that need it... The GOA directed the NHTSA to get moving and update its 30 yr old tests because these current tests predict little or nothing. The NHTSA generally agreed with GAO's findings
May 22, 2008 (3:59 am)
You mispoke on each of those 3 occasions. All of my replies were based on you making mistakes.
"Any OEMs" read correctly is "Any original equipment manufacturers". No bad reading comprehension, I'm not a mind reader. I don't care what you meant beyond what you said.
The 2008 'model' is the gen-10 Corolla.
It is only logical that they update standards to continually improve safety accross the board. Making slight improvements is not the same as what you were saying, that the standards are useless.
The GOA directed the NHTSA to get moving and update its 30 yr old tests because these current tests predict little or nothing.
Don't interpret 'between the lines' as part of your propaganda ministry. That is NOT what they are saying. All vehicles have come up to spec, so its time to change the spec. It does not say they predict little or nothing. It means most cars are now relatively safe due to the successful testing, and they need to see how much safer the excellent ones are from average.
Today's passenger vehicles are designed to be more crashworthy than they used to be, largely thanks to this testing. Still, over 30,000 occupants die in crashes on U.S. roads each year.
The very success of the NCAP means remaining differences in performance among most new vehicles in full-width tests are small. This doesn't mean important crashworthiness differences no longer exist. They do exist, and additional crash test configurations can highlight these differences. One such test is the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety's (IIHS) frontal offset crash. Full-width and offset tests complement each other. Full-width tests are especially demanding of restraints but less demanding of structure, while the reverse is true in offsets.
Go ahead and read it. Notice when they say "23 years later, the standard is the same as it was in 1978." That was 2001. It follows with a long list of improvements.
You actually haven't managed to make many posts without making significant errors either, so I wouldn't bother sounding superior.
But like I said you'll never figure it out. I see you troll the Prius boards defending safety. I have no doubt you use bias to form your arguments.
May 22, 2008 (5:50 am)
2008 Corolla weighed about the same as the 2009 Yaris. They all wear similar-sized shoes as 2008 Prius.
The 2008 Prius weighs more than the 2009 Corolla. 2009 Corolla's shoes are wider accross the range. Even the 2004 Camry, which was of roughly equal weight to the Prius, had an extra inch of contact patch.
2008 Prius wears shoes designed for cars 300-400lbs lighter than itself.
The point I was trying to make, but we both got lost on how many generations of Corolla there are, and which one is which.
I get the feeling that the 2009 Prius will be a real porker, close to 2009 Camry weight. Let us indeed see if they follow up with mid-size car tires, as that is what the Prius ought to have always had.
Indeed I was correct, that compared to other vehicles of its size, Toyota always fitted tires that had less resistance while rolling to the Prius, likely to improve fuel economy. That works the same with any car, but they wanted to exaggerate the improvements of their Synergy Drive. They do not have to be of a LRRT material to achieve that effect. But I guarantee it is at the cost of braking and accident avoidance.
#184 of 311 Re: seats [bigmclargehuge]
May 22, 2008 (6:30 am)
These may all be a moot point for everyone. I'm not that interested in arguing the history of NHTSA anymore, despite the disinformation that's been thrown around on this forum.
I'm sure it does just fine in crash worthiness, as indeed almost all cars tested are getting A's and B's. There are few genearlly 'unsafe' cars in a crash. However, I like to avoid crashes altogether, and NHTSA is making it a primary goal to study accident avoidance.
That is something that is as of yet untested and unverified. But do a google search for 'Prius' and 'wet' and you'll see what I mean. Its not the most stable vehicle out there.
People buy it for MPG. Great, it is the best out there. No argument. But please don't pretend it's the best thing since sliced bread for everyone and all purposes. You do make some concessions with most cars, and this is no different.
We all know its not among the fastest, or the sportiest, or the best handling, even the most comfortable vehicles on the road. IMO, you could add not the safest to that list. It may be the best fuel sipper.
We all have our priorities.
#185 of 311 Improvements wanted for 2009--Wish list
May 25, 2008 (5:04 pm)
I have a 2006 Prius and am considered a second one, once the 2009 is here. Anyone know if it will have improvements such as the following:
-- Front/rear disc brakes?
-- Sturdier, less cheesey plastic dash?
-- More adjustments for front seats?
-- More powerful heater?
I do love the mileage, mind you. But I have to tell people, when asked, that it is basically a low-end car (think Corolla) with an advanced power train. Is there hope for improvements in 2009?
#186 of 311 Re: Improvements wanted for 2009--Wish list [maribago]
May 25, 2008 (6:19 pm)
There will be no changes on the 2009s at all. They will be carryovers until the big change next summer as a 2010 MY. Announcement to be made in January at the NAIAS.
As to your specific questions, only the builders/designers know and it's doubtful we'll know anything before Jan.
#187 of 311 Re: seats [stevedebi]
May 27, 2008 (10:09 am)
I followed your link but found only complaints about the tires on the 2002 Prius. The four year old article points out that the Toyota Dealer found an additional tire that was in need of replacement. It sounds like an issue with the tire manufacturer or a maintenance issue with the owner of that Prius.
I don't own a Prius (mostly because I am unwilling to stand in line behind dozens of other buyers who are willing to buy a Prius on the dealers terms (often above MSRP)), but EVERYONE I know who drives a Prius loves the vehicle. Only one person I have spoken to has had a problem. A failed ECM after 110,000 miles on her 2002 Prius.
I will not be swayed by anecdotal evidence from a driver who doesn't understand the any mechanical device requires a minimum of maintenance. I won't blame the car. I would blame the driver who does not perform regular maintenance on the vehicle. Any driver who does not at least casually inspect the most important piece of safety equipment regularly (tires) deserves some inconvenience.
#188 of 311 Re: seats [gearhead8]
Jun 04, 2008 (3:41 am)
I don't own a Prius (mostly because I am unwilling to stand in line behind dozens of other buyers who are willing to buy a Prius on the dealers terms (often above MSRP))
I don't know where you're getting these quote over MSRP, but I recently got quotes for a loaded Touring edition Prius from 6 dealers -- half on the east coast (Virginia), half in the West (Colorado, New Mexico), and NONE were over MSRP and most were under MSRP, with the best about $900 under MSRP.
I, however, decided to wait for the 2009 model.