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Hybrid Vehicles Toyota Prius What to expect from the next model year Prius
311 messages, Last post on Apr 26, 2009 at 5:43 AM
You are in the Toyota Prius Forum. Your Host is pf_flyer
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Replying to: gagrice (Nov 09, 2007 7:02 am)
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Replying to: kdhspyder (Nov 09, 2007 7:44 am) |
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Replying to: gagrice (Nov 09, 2007 7:02 am) NOT...!! There is just barely enough HEAT level left in the exhaust of an atkinson engine to fire off the catalyst to operating temperature. Certainly NOT enough to "power" a turbo. On the other hand a fully variable speed/boost Supercharger might be an ideal way to increase the power of a 1.6L engine up to the level "required". Adding another variable frequency inverter to power a 2-3 HP AC motor to drive the SC would be a POC. Even better, driving the SC via a combination of the ICE and an AC motor via a form of the e-CVT would be even better. |
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We all know that Toyota, as with other auto companies, is on this track of more power with succeeding models whether the consumer needs it or not. With the Prius the most obvious upgrade is to let the 1NZ-FXE engine run at 6000rpm which should up the power from 76Hp to something around 90Hp with only incremental increases in the electrical equipment. Of course the engine may not be quite so clean at this level but does the DOT testing actually require the engine to touch maximum output over its standard driving cycle, does anybody know ? I have brought this up before that the amount of time that full power is ever used is comparitively small, perhaps the standard should be that when cruising at top speed. But could you even fail a vehicle on its pollution count at 100mph since that condition is beyond posted limits permitted in any state ? T2
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Replying to: toyolla2 (Nov 09, 2007 5:13 pm)
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Replying to: wwest (Nov 09, 2007 8:38 pm) However talking of engine use at max rpms, that is the reason I favor series hybrids. With control of the throttle most drivers will not rev above 4000rpm, so they have this large engine but they never use but two thirds its capacity. With Prius and series hybrids you relinquish that control to the ECU. In return you get, with the Prius, a performance boost not found with stepped transmissions as the engine continuously rises towards its full rpm at 51mph. Instead of capitalising further on this advantage, the industry appears to be looking to use more power to be sourced from batteries. Fom a recent announcement we learn Toyota is supplying two Prius to SoCal universities equipped with larger NiMH packs. I see that as a niche market with the cost of the battery raising the hybrid premium. Alternatively, I would like to see the Fiat 900cc two-cylinder engine style, from the Panda Aria concept that's scheduled for 2010 I believe, installed in the next design of Prius. It has 25% less weight and 20% more FE over the small four usually fitted to that Fiat vehicle. Fiat is working on a 65Hp naturally aspirated version but the turbocharged 105Hp is good to go. I can only guess that the higher CR used on the lesser engine is giving a NOX issue. Fewer cylinders would provide a needed cost reduction on the Prius. I would quite believe that the machining operations are similar in inline fours such that the price delta between 1.5L and 2.4L engines is quite small. It is going to need something like less cylinders to make a difference. They used to say about small engines 'a different hill needed a different gear'. The Prius servos with their ability to supply the exact ratio needed for the load torque at any point in time would seem ideally suited to these two-cylinder engines. T2
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Replying to: sailorman4 (Oct 26, 2007 6:24 pm) I hope you bought carbon offset credits for the flight. ha!  Just kidding, of course, but that joke works on so many levels, I couldn't resist! |
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Replying to: toyolla2 (Nov 12, 2007 11:48 am) The test vehicles are here to evaluate the usefulness of the extended range on EV only, to see if it is really worth the extra cost, in an urban setting. They are also evaluating the use of the plug-in feature, to see how that translates to reduced emissions, again, in a US urban setting, and the Japanese ones in their urban setting. It's hard for the engineers to know exactly how such a vehicle would be used, as that is different in different cultures, so these tests are to gather data on that.
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Replying to: toyolla2 (Nov 12, 2007 11:48 am) If it were possible to build a commercially-viable series hybrid, I think Toyota would already have done it. I hear lots of hype about series hybrids, but have yet to see an actual implementation, except for (I think) diesel train engines. Do you have any links to post for anyone who has ever produced such a auto comercially?
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Replying to: stevedebi (Nov 12, 2007 1:59 pm) http://www.azuredynamics.com/november262004b.htm Azure were working a deal in the UK with London Taxis International to supply them with a series hybrid cab. At least one was built and shipped from their plant in Vancouver, BC. Later on LTI introduced their new "Black Cab" for London's downtown. Said vehicle turned out to be a 2.2L diesel with automatic transmission. That's right, someone gave the greenlight to mixing thousands of diesel engines in one of the most populated areas in England, go figure. This particular action seemed hardly consistent with government policy to reduce air pollution in urban settings. A while later Azure closed their UK office. Azure Dynamics is a division of Ballard Power Systems. Last week Ballard announced the sale of its automotive fuel cell division. In the meantime it must have been somewhat embarrasing for Azure to learn that the highest mileage hybrid was in fact a Vancouver taxi in the form of a Toyota Prius, which had been running around in their own backyard. T2
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