Article Comments: The World's Quickest Hatchback

48 messages, Last post on Dec 08, 2006 at 1:53 PM

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What is this discussion about? Mazda MAZDASPEED MAZDA3, Hatchback

Article comments for Japanese First Drive: Mazdaspeed 3/Axela MPS - If Mazda ever needed a successful volume-selling car to ensure its survival, then the Mazda 3 is it. In just under three years, the popular hatch has sold more than 920,000 units worldwide and rates as one of the most competitive and best-handling hatches on the market. (more)

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#9 of 48 Re: I don't understand the hoopla. [ciaoman] by roadwarriors Jul 18, 2006 (10:53 am)
Replying to: ciaoman (Jul 17, 2006 6:42 pm) I don't think you understand that the numbers mentioned are Mazda's numbers. They are not road test numbers. It hasn't even been tested yet. When a manufacturer comes out with a new car they give a rough estimate of what the car can do. They usually understate that number (for many reasons). Especially since this is a brand new car. They don't want a bunch of problems on their hands if the car doesn't run exactly what they say it will do. When the SRT-4 came out I think it was rated at 215hp, 6.1 0-60 and 14.4 in the 1/4 mi. After a year, and some real world tests, which showed it could hit high 13's in the 1/4 and had more like 230hp, Dodge adjusted their numbers accordingly. No AWD to save weight? Um, not really. It was done to save money. AWD in this car might be nice but it would also run close to $30K and be competing with the Evo/STi. Not the market they were going for. Also, while there is the obvious advantage of AWD, there are also performance related drawbacks. AWD has more drive train loss. Which means that if it did have AWD in this same package it would be putting less actual HP to the ground. When an SRT-4 lines up against a WRX, both having about the same HP at the crank, the WRX if launched properly will take the early lead but eventally it WILL get walked by the SRT-4 the faster they go. That's mostly why AWD cars don't have that great of a top end. This car will be good for 5.5 0-60 times (which mean nothing by the way) and a sub 14 sec 1/4mi. Just wait until the real testing begins. By they way, a Legacy GT will not cut a 5.1 0-60, it's closer to about 6 seconds...
#10 of 48 Re: I don't understand the hoopla. [aviboy97] by tsy Jul 18, 2006 (1:59 pm)
Replying to: aviboy97 (Jul 18, 2006 8:06 am) The 6.1 sec 0-60 time may be correct. The article talks about the ECU limiting the torque in first through third gears. Also, if the tranny's geared so you have to hit 3rd, that will slow down the 0-60 time. (does it really matter except for bragging rights?) I seems Mazda has done a nice job in making an affordable sporty hatchback. I think it will do well. BTW, (for what it's worth) a Legacy GT with summer tires will do a 5.4-5.5 0-60 (it hits 60 in 2nd gear so there's only one shift). With some mild mods that time will drop closer to 5.1 sec. But it's not in the same class as the MS3. tom
#11 of 48 Another great Mazda idea by kmjs_1 Jul 18, 2006 (3:01 pm)
Mazda is competing against hot hatches, not wagons. The competition in the U.S. will be with VW GTI, the Mini and maybe the Audi A3. Based on this article, the Mazda will run and handle as well or better than any of these and will be priced lower. It should be successful if it can come close to the VW and Audi in ride and interior quality. Mazda seems to be coming out with great vehicle ideas all the time now. The new CX-7, the Mazdaspeed 6, now the Mazdaspeed 3. But you can't compare the Mazdaspeed 3 to a Legacy GT wagon, then you'd have to bring in Dodge Magnum RT, Audi A4 Avants, and others in the +30k range. And by the way, the only Legacy GT that would do a 0-60 in 5.1 is the Spec B sedan (R&T test). The regular Legacy GT sedan ran 5.6 and 5.7 in C&D and R&T tests. So no Legacy GT wagon is going to be running 5.1, and it is not a valid competitor to the Mazdaspeed 3 anyway. Replies to this message: aviboy97 (Jul 19, 2006 7:17 am)
#12 of 48 0-60 in UNDER 6 sec is Mazda's claim! by swhitehorn Jul 18, 2006 (4:31 pm)
After reading some of these comments, I decided to check out Mazda's website for myself. Not only do they claim sub 6 second 0 to 60 times and a 155 mph top speed, but give epa estimates of 20/28. This makes for an excellent combination of speed and economy, a fine balance that is very difficult to achieve by any automaker. Sure the Civic SI has better fuel economy, but it doesn't have near enough torque to match the Mazda's rich, wide powerband. Nor does it have as fine a gearbox. Finally, the Mazda has much greatly utility and interior room with its hatchback design and fold flat rear seats. Mazda seems to have established a new standard for pocket rockets at a reasonable price of $21K. Incidentally, Mazda does furnish a 4 year 50k bumper to bumper warranty versus the indusry standard 3 yr 36k warranty. This is German engineering at it's best with Japenese reliability! Sorry Honda, Volkswagen & BMW fans. This is the most bang for the buck in this segment and by a very wide margin. swhitehorn from San Antonio Replies to this message: aviboy97 (Jul 19, 2006 7:19 am) mgriza (Sep 21, 2006 6:12 pm)
#13 of 48 Re: Another great Mazda idea [kmjs_1] by aviboy97 Jul 19, 2006 (7:17 am)
Replying to: kmjs_1 (Jul 18, 2006 3:01 pm) And by the way, the only Legacy GT that would do a 0-60 in 5.1 is the Spec B sedan (R&T test). The regular Legacy GT sedan ran 5.6 and 5.7 in C&D and R&T tests The Legacy GT and Legacy GT Spec B have the same engine, do the same 0-60 time. The only upgrade is the 6 speed tranny, and suspension. I don't know how R&T got that big of a time difference. 5.7-5.8 0-60 is what I have been seeing, all because of the ability to hit 60mph in second gear. I think 0-60 time in the Mazdaspeed3 is going to depend on if it can hit 60mph in second gear. I believe it has the same tranny as the Mazdaspeed6, which cannot hit 60mph in second, hence the 6.1 0-60 time. That split second it takes to shift does it! However, the Mazdaspeed3, as well as the Mazdaspeed6, are vehicles with a total driving package, not just a sprint car.
#14 of 48 Re: 0-60 in UNDER 6 sec is Mazda's claim! [swhitehorn] by aviboy97 Jul 19, 2006 (7:19 am)
Replying to: swhitehorn (Jul 18, 2006 4:31 pm) Mazda does furnish a 4 year 50k bumper to bumper warranty versus the indusry standard 3 yr 36k warranty Mazda has changed the warranty to 3yr-36K bumper to bumper, 5yr-60K engine power train for MY 2007
#15 of 48 The competition by dc_driver Jul 21, 2006 (6:02 am)
As mentioned the competition for the Mazdaspeed3 is not $30K+ vehicles. The price point will be closer to that of the VW GTI, and the Honda Civic. Honestly, I am not sure there are any cars that can offer the performance and features in the price range of the Mazdaspeed3. C'mon, you know the manufacturer numbers are going to be conservative. I am sure that C&D, MotorTrend, etc will have this thing clocked 0-60 in the mid to high 5's. At any rate, this is a lot of performance for the price tag, and it still gets solid gas mileage.
#16 of 48 My civic si? by spargo Sep 14, 2006 (10:06 am)
This throws a wrench in the works of my plan to buy a civic si. The 07s cost over 21k delivered, and its really not that much to spend an extra 1.5-2k for all that this offers. I'm a little concerned one of my least favorite auto jugernauts (ford the company that owns mazda) has managed to pull this little rocket out of no where for so cheap. Its almost like you can't buy a car anymore without watching it get trounced within the next year by something with more power for the same price. -Spargo Replies to this message: rorr (Sep 14, 2006 1:57 pm)
#17 of 48 Re: My civic si? [spargo] by rorr Sep 14, 2006 (1:57 pm)
Replying to: spargo (Sep 14, 2006 10:06 am) "Its almost like you can't buy a car anymore without watching it get trounced within the next year by something with more power for the same price." Well, sure. But it's been like that for YEARS. Just don't get caught up in the whole "I've ALWAYS got to have the fastest/latest thing on the market". I mean, who are you in competition with? In late 1999, I bought a brand new Celica GTS. Why? Because it put a grin on my face. It handled great, stopped great, and had a nice little surge in the powerband over 6k rpm. Now it's nearly 7 years old and, if I were the type to indulge in little stoplight grand prix, I would be sorely disappointed in it. But hey, it's STILL THE SAME CAR. And it still puts a grin on my face. The point is that whatever you buy simply WON'T stay the absolute nadir of price/performance. Competition keeps making these things better (damn). Whenever you're ready to buy, just look around for whatever floats your boat at that time and DON'T WORRY about what's coming in 6 months....or 6 months after that....or 6 months after that. You're right. RIGHT NOW, it appears as though the Speed3 is the hot ticket. Who knows about 6 months or a year from now?
#18 of 48 Re: 0-60 in UNDER 6 sec is Mazda's claim! [swhitehorn] by mgriza Sep 21, 2006 (6:12 pm)
Replying to: swhitehorn (Jul 18, 2006 4:31 pm) A few points for everyone: The Legacy GT Limited runs about a 5.7-5.9 depending what article you read. The Spec.B runs about a 5.1 - 5.4 R&T had 5.1, C&D had 5.4, MT had 5.3. Yes, same engine and transmission - the 6 speed wasn't in there until '07 which nobody tested yet. The reason for the faster speeds is grip off the line. It has fatter summer tires on 18 inchers vs. the 17 inchers on all season for the stock. Coincidentally, the Mazdaspeed3 uses the EXACT same wheel size & tire as the Spec.B. I expect it will run something around a 5.8. MT did a first drive in it in the october mag. They didn't have instruments to test, but they state it takes a 2-3 shift to hit 60, so that slows it down by a few tenths. The Legacy does not need the 2-3 shift. I expect through the quarter mile, where the Legacy GT runs about a 14.2 the Mazda will pull ahead by a bit (more torque, less weight). Expect a slightly sub 14. Right now the '06 Legacys have 2750 cash back, and you can usually get them close to invoice without that discount, so buy now if you want one These are currently the top 2 cars I'm considering - buy the Legacy now or wait for the 3. Hmm...