Last post on Sep 03, 2013 at 5:22 PM
You are in the Toyota Prius
What is this discussion about?
Toyota Prius, Brakes, Hatchback, Sedan
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#321 of 370 My 2010 Prius still surges after fix.
Jun 02, 2010 (9:43 pm)
My prius is still surging even after getting the fix. It spends most of it's time in my garage since I have two young children and don't feel like it is safe. Today I sent yet another complaint about yesterday's surge to the NHTSA and decided to search to see if others are still having the same problem. I found many complaints post fix.
We tried arbitration, but got nowhere. We have taken it in multiple times. I know Toyota maintains that it is safe, but I don't agree. I have had several people explain the way the brakes work, but a surge is still a surge. I drive slowly and take my foot off gas way before stop light, but what I can't control is when on a fast road and am cut off and then the person slams on their brakes. I tried to trade it in, but I will lose more than $12,000 on a car that is less than a year old. I know cars depreciate about 20% in the first year, but that is almost a 40% depreciation. Now I am stuck with a car that I don't think is safe! I am calling everyone from media to senators and hope that I get some traction. From NHTSA and other forums I know that I am not the only one experiencing this problem. One way or another this issue must be resolved!
#322 of 370 Re: My 2010 Prius still surges after fix. [betsyr]
Jun 15, 2010 (9:20 am)
Life is a series of compromises.
You wanted a hybrid, highly fuel efficient, car. That can't happen without regenerative braking to recover energy that would otherwise be lost to heating of the brakes. So the frictional brakes MUST be disabled at times, random times insofar as you are concerned.
As far as I know there is simply no way to make an easy and smooth transition, certainly not in all circumstances/situations, from pure/only regenerative braking to partial or even full frictional braking.
And by the way, what you are experiencing is NOT a SURGE but a slight lessening of braking effort. I just drove a 2010 Sienna for a full week and the forward lurch/"surge" due to the coastdown upshift after the engine fuel-cut period is just as noticeable in the Sienna as in the Prius.
My '01 F/awd RX300 has very much the same coastdown "upshift" lurch/"surge" as the speed declines below ~35MPH or ~10MPH. I noticed it at first, shortly after I purchased it new, but nowadays I find I must pay close attention in order to take note that it remains.
#323 of 370 Re: My 2010 Prius still surges after fix. [wwest]
Jun 15, 2010 (10:18 am)
I have a 2004 with 60,000 miles and have never had anything but a very slight surge.
The 2010 has disc brakes frond AND rear but that should not cause your problem.
Bring it to Don at Bighorn Toyota in Glenwood Springs, Colorado and he'll fix it for you.
#324 of 370 Re: My 2010 Prius still surges after fix. [stevegold]
Jun 15, 2010 (2:31 pm)
The 2010 Prius had a serious firmware design flaw wherein the ABS would "signal" the regenerative braking system that since wheelslip had been detected only frictional braking could, was to be, used. The problem was that somewhere in the back and forth communications between the two ECU's a disconnect occured and although regenerative braking would be discontinued accordingly frictional braking would sometimes be delayed, sometimes indefinitely, coming online.
Not just a slight lurch but seconds or more of virtually no braking effort.
Scary moments resulted.
Once you have endured a few of those moments even any little bit of brake "fade", "slight surge", common to the Prius, becomes a heart in throat event.
#325 of 370 2010 Prius IV with NAV
Jun 15, 2010 (5:41 pm)
Not a single issue after over 1000 miles in ODO and I am enjoying every bit of the smooth and safe driving of this real cutie... 2nd tank with over 610 miles and 68.5MPG computer calculated... wow, what an awesome vehicle Toyota has built...
#326 of 370 Re: My 2010 Prius still surges after fix. [wwest]
Jun 15, 2010 (7:27 pm)
>> Not just a slight lurch but seconds or more of virtually no braking effort
#327 of 370 Re: My 2010 Prius still surges after fix. [john1701a]
by PFFlyer@Edmunds HOST
Jun 16, 2010 (3:06 am)
700 milliseconds IS significant if you ask me. At at just 20 mph, a speed you might be going in close proximity to a car in from of you, that 7/10ths of a second translates to 20 feet before a car would begin to stop.
#328 of 370 Re: My 2010 Prius still surges after fix. [john1701a]
Jun 16, 2010 (8:10 am)
Where did you get this number/limit...?
My understanding is that the non-braking time is random, possibly infinite, due to a design flaw within the firmware.
But yes, even 100 milliseconds of absolutely no braking can not only be extremely frightening but easily result in an accident. In the past ten or more years I have been involved in two "light" rear enders due to needless ABS activation that inadvertently extended my stopping distance on a perfectly dry highly tractive surface.
In my opinion ABS should NEVER activate unless VSC indicates a need for stearage, either the vehicle is not following the driver's stearing inputs, plowing, or is over-stearing.
#329 of 370 Re: My 2010 Prius still surges after fix. [wwest]
by PFFlyer@Edmunds HOST
Jun 16, 2010 (5:35 pm)
We just bought our first vehicle that came with ABS standard. Only about 1,500 miles so far so I haven't run into any situations where I've noticed any difference yet. Hopefully I never will
#330 of 370 Re: My 2010 Prius still surges after fix. [pf_flyer]
Jun 16, 2010 (7:04 pm)
You'd have to be braking fairly hard only using regen, strike a large pothole, and be approaching a vehicle already at a dead stop 20 feet from there. Could happen. Highly unlikely though. And probably never after getting the update.