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Hybrid Vehicles Saturn VUE Green Line Hybrid Is the Saturn Vue Green Line a Turning Point for Hybrids?
72 messages, Last post on Mar 09, 2009 at 2:28 PM
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As for the "turning point" topic, that question is impossible to answer... since it is clearly not the only factor. It would be just as easy to replace "Vue Green Line" with "$3.00 per gallon gas" instead. And that has already proven to be a contributor toward change. JOHN |
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Replying to: john1701a (Jul 15, 2006 6:16 am) Well your claim is not true at all. The top 14 selling cars are all less expensive in their average trim than the cheapest Prius. Which a PKG one in CA is right at $25k before TTL. Unless you have some data that is not available to the public the Prius is a car for the upper middle class as is the TCH. No entry level Toyota hybrids now or in the future plans.
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Replying to: gagrice (Jul 14, 2006 2:52 pm) Heck NO !! ABSOLUTELY NOT TRUE !! I am HAPPY HAPPY HAPPY that a hybrid SUV will be available at around $23,000. If they sell 200,000 of them the first year, that will be music to my ears !!! But COME ON GM: not giving the display a real-time MPG meter? Not giving drivers a current tank MPG display? How is that going to help them use the technology in the best and smartest way, which is to minimize fuel usage? Should that not be the goal of any hybrid which is meant to increase MPG - to minimize fuel usage by providing the tools for the driver to make best use of the available technology? So now Vue Hybrid drivers will just be "driving blind" in regard to learning how to best utilize the hybrid system while the vehicle is moving. They won't be able to learn the "speed sweet spots" and SEE WITH THEIR OWN EYES that they are learning how to drive the car in the best way for max MPG. They'll have to just WAIT TILL THE FILLUP and calculate the MPG. What this does in my eyes is SET BACK the hybrid technology movement. Sure, the plus is that maybe more people will have the vehicles on the road, but you can BET that their will be a TON of owners who are CRYING about the gas mileage, and that could be REDUCED if GM had just given the car's computer the t proper tools !!! GGGGGRRRRRRRR !!!!!! 
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Replying to: gagrice (Jul 15, 2006 10:32 am) Has that gone DOWN in the last two years Gary? Actually, as of last November it was $27,958. That is less than I paid for my brand new 2007 TCH. "Average Cost of a New Car Reached Four Year High Last Quarter Before you buy it, you'd better TACH-TOC-IT: BEFORE you fall in love, MAKE SURE you KNOW the Total Ownership and Operating Costs for your choice of car, suv or truck. Washington DC November 17, 2005; The AIADA newsletter reported that the average cost of a new car during the third quarter was the highest in four years, reports USA Today. The study was done by the Comerica Auto Affordability Index, who reported the average price to be $27,958, up 6 percent from last year. Comerica says the main reasons for the high prices are increased financing costs and because “consumers have used incentives to upgrade their vehicle choices.” Comerica’s chief economist Dana Johnson also noted that car buyers have purchased more expensive cars lately. "It’s certainly not surprising that financing costs have gone up," Johnson said. "What surprised me is that the average amount spent per car rose quite significantly in the third quarter." from this page: http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2005/11/17/148405.html
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Replying to: larsb (Jul 15, 2006 10:47 am) Now for the average car sold. Here is a list of the top 14 sedans sold in the USA this year through June. It accounts for 1.749 million cars, over half the cars sold. You look through those and tell me the average is $28k. I call NO WAY. a big share of them are under $20k. By all I have read the top selling Camry sells 80% 4C models. They start at $18k and top out about $24k. The number two selling Corolla fully loaded top of the line has a TMV of $18,552. You can get into a base Corolla for $14k. With a Median USA family income at $43k, the Hybrids are over their means. That is not saying they would not go deep in debt to get one. People in this country have proven they are willing to get over extended to have what they want NOW. Toyota Camry total Toyota Corolla total Honda Accord total Chevrolet Impala Chevrolet Cobalt Honda Civic total Ford Taurus total Pontiac G6 Ford Focus total Chevrolet Malibu '04 Nissan Altima Ford Fusion Dodge Caliber Hyundai Sonata The Prius has dropped in sales from number 17 this time last year to number 22. I guess the newness has worn off. Or all the HOV stickers are gone in CA. |
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Replying to: larsb (Jul 15, 2006 10:45 am) If they include financing, TTL etc. I would say that is correct. With that formula the Prius will be over $40k. A loaded Prius including TTL is about $35k in CA. With Credit Union financing at about 7.5% for 5 years you will have payments of $700 per month and the total cost will be $42k. Their figure of $27,958 would be for a car with a sales price of $21,000. Add $2000 for TTL and $4700 finance charge and you just about hit that average figure.
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Replying to: gagrice (Jul 15, 2006 11:42 am) I have a cubemate who has owned two Priuses and neither of them have been more than that at sticker. Prius owners - chime in here any time now........Did you pay more than $28000 for your car? I know I am on my second hybrid and my average price paid is $23,041.50. That's about $5K less than the USA average. That puts hybrids in the affordable range for MANY MANY Americans. The fact that the Hybrid Vue is going to sticker out at around $23,000 is good news. But it's not the first low cost hybrid ever sold in the USA. It DOES hold the crown as the least expensive hybrid SUV in the USA. That's good for everybody. It's just sad that GM left out $500 worth of fuel usage computer displays.
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Replying to: larsb (Jul 15, 2006 11:58 am) Hold on nice try. Your $23k is above the National average. Did you include average finance & TTL charges to that? Your report you used included finance and all charges associated with buying the car. By your own study your new TCH would be about $35k with TTL & finance charges. So you are a quite a bit over the National average with your new car. You really cannot count a used car as a new one for the purposes of average cost of a new car. Why is it so hard to see that Toyota is only interested in selling hybrids to you fat cats? When they started out they were an even $20k. I came so close to buying one. It had 8 year 100k mile bumper to bumper warranty. All service was included. That was a good deal. That was the last good deal available on a hybrid from Toyota. Now you bad mouth GM for trying to cut costs and sell a hybrid for the same price as a CRV or RAV4. Would you rather they added all the mileage crap, and sold them at $30k plus like the Escape Hybrid?
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Replying to: john1701a (Jul 14, 2006 10:14 pm) Protraying this system as if it is the same as the competition is not constructive. They don't have the same components and they don't operate the same way. The "full" hybrids create and consume far more electricity. It's not the same, but the Prius has the same drawbacks. The A/C just consumes too much power. Why do you think the Camry has an 'eco' button that cuts the A/C power back? Toyota realized this a while ago. |
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Replying to: gagrice (Jul 15, 2006 12:30 pm) The average price of a new car, per the Comerica study, is right around $27,900. My TCH sticker price which is what I paid was $26,759. So the TCH is BELOW the national USA average. Get that? Got that? Good !!!! My HCH was indeed "used" but it had only 4822 miles on it and had been sold as NEW only THREE MONTHS EARLIER. So that is as close to a NEW car as you can get !!! I paid about $1800 less thana new one. So even if it had been NEW at $21,500, then my two hybrids averaged $24,129 That is $3770 below the national average. Get that? Got that? Good !!! I would rather have GM sell the Vue at $23,500 and have the real-time mileage gauge and the tank computer for helping the drivers use the technology to the best advantage. That's all I said. It would not have cost them much at all to add that feature.
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