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Hybrid Vehicles Toyota Highlander Hybrid Towing with the Highlander Hybrid
84 messages, Last post on Sep 16, 2009 at 1:27 PM
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Replying to: cdptrap (Oct 02, 2005 7:18 pm) We keep the Head lights on all the time for added safety (auto mode). Curious to know if electrical consumption cuts down on MPG? Would more electrical demand cause the motor to kick on sooner than with less electrical demand? When at a stop we always leave the car in "D" never park or "N" I have on occasion just took my foot off the break and rolled up to speed just ever so easy on the gas. I recall the engine kicked in at something like 18-20 mph. I can really only do this on side streets. Just wanted to add, that we got the dealer to come down on the price $1000.00 off MSRP. They kicked in all the paper work for free and gave me the first 3 oil changes for free. Free tank of gas, polish and wax job. A coupon book with like 50 coupons that have anywhere from 5% off to 25% off for parts and service. And a free dash cover. Not the best bargain I was hopping for, but I guess every little bit helps. They also gave me $2000.00 over blue book for my 2002 Jeep Liberty 4X4. It helped that I took 2 cell phones with me and had two dealerships fitting for my business while I sitting in the seats at a 3rd dealership trying to make a deal as well. Thanks Ace Techno - Larry |
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Replying to: acetechno (Oct 02, 2005 5:20 pm) The ICE kicks in and raises the battery to 3 bars, then shuts off. For me it happened just as it dropped to one bar. 2. I seem to average only 20 miles to a gallon. I am already on my 3rd tank of gas. I am not a lead foot, but do drive about 15 miles of free way one way. Does this seem right? Unfortunately, yes. It'll get better - I started at 22mpg on the first tank and got up to 25 mpg on the 3rd tank. Freeway driving and short trips hurt mileage - the freeway driving doesn't use the hybrid system unless it's a lot of hills and the short trip hurts because the ICE always turns on to warm up the cat converter. 3. Lastly. How fast can I go on electric power before I should feel the gas motor kick in? It seems like the wheels make a complete 180 turn and then the gas kicks in. I would figure If I don't tax the engine I should be able to cruise around the neighborhood on straight electrical power alone, right? This, too, improves with time. I am on my 4th tank and I can get it up to 20 MPH on level ground with just battery and the A/C turned off. At the beginning it kicked in more or less immediately. You DO need to have a light foot to do this. Have fun! |
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Replying to: igh (Oct 01, 2005 9:39 pm) reduced acceleration requirements in city driving and at sustained speeds in highway driving. When further power is needed the ICE is always there for assist. Another option that Toyota has is to use the 2.4L 160 HP I4 ICE engine in a greener model trim hybrid instead of the 210 HP 3.3L V6. This will reduce weight by 150 lb offsetting the extra battery weight. It will reduce cost by 2k. So plug-in will be just $2-3K extra. It will give additional 3-4mpg in pure hybrid mode. Mate this with 2, 40 Kw electric motors on both axels or 4, 20 kw motors at the 4 wheels. 0-60 acceleration will be 9.5s instead of 7.3s using both power. This can be enough for many people. Then effective mpg can exceed 100mpg." Much said here and only one reply: If you want really high MPG, don't buy a 4500 lb vehicle and then try and equip it to run like a Prius. Buy a 2900 lb Prius. There is no substitute for lighter weight and smaller engine size. The HH and other hybrid SUVs are a compromise between the higher weight and wind drag caused by the SUV platform and larger size, and the need for somewhat better mileage. The fact that some HH are getting nearly as good MPG as the Escape Hybrid is telling - there are limits to the capabilies of the Atkinson cycle small engine when mated to a heavy platform. I actually think that if the I4 had yielded significantly better MPG in HH prototypes, Toyota would have produced that engine instead of the V6. |
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Replying to: stevedebi (Oct 03, 2005 10:52 am) So, they can build lighter cars (because they did). I can't believe the Prius weighs the same as my 4Runner . . . you should see the size difference, the Prius could fit inside. Hard enough to work out why the Highlander weighs so much more. |
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Replying to: stevedebi (Oct 03, 2005 10:52 am) If conservation is more important, Prius would be our choice and then we will buy a real 4x4 V6 or V8 for outdoor adventure use. With gas at $3.22 a gallon, I am glad we did not do this. It is fun to tweak a car like the HH so some will indeed try to tweak it for better MPG in town while sacrificing its performance. Our family prefer its current blend of efficiency and performance. More MPG is good but less performance is bad and more performance is not necessary  .
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Replying to: stevedebi (Oct 03, 2005 10:52 am) The above statement is not true. There is a substitute. It is using multiple sources of power. Like ICE and grid charged batteries in a plug-in hybrid. I want a large vehicle to haul my extended family on long trips (maybe 2 to 3 times a year) but also one that lets me commute daily efficiently. I do not want to buy two vehicles for the two purposes. A grid-charged plug-in hybrid will be able to do both these tasks efficiently. The car is just configured on-the-fly for the different requirements. That solution can be provided and the technology exists. Solar power feeding into the grid will cost less in the long run and a 60 mile square area in the US has enough solar power to run all the vehicles running in the US. Pure electric is poor solution due to limited range and long charge times. Pure ICE is poor due to gas costs, dependence on foreign countries, and environmental reasons. However combine the two and you get a much better solution. Now replace gas in the ICE with ethanol or bio-diesel and there just might be a complete lasting solution. As for weight, the I4 highlander base weighs 3500lbs. The V6 limited AWD weighs 3950lbs, the HH weighs 4250lbs. Unfortunately the extra battery and electric drive train adds weight. A plug-in using the I4 can be possible within 4300 lbs.
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Replying to: igh (Oct 03, 2005 1:34 pm) 3950lbs, the HH weighs 4250lbs. Unfortunately the extra battery and electric drive train adds weight. A plug-in using the I4 can be possible within 4300 lbs." Thanks for the update, but Edmunds lists the FWD model at a Curb Weight: 4070 lbs, AWD at 4245 lbs. I will modify my statement to include RH400 and HH: "If you want really high MPG, don't buy a 4000-4500 lb vehicle, with large frontal section and large V6 engine, and then expect MPG like a Prius. Buy a 2900 lb Prius. There is no substitute for lighter weight and smaller engine size." I must disagree on the concept of multiple sources of power in the context of this discussion. The Prius achieves it's MPG based on small engine size coupled with the HSD supplementing the power of the ICE. Since both the sedan and the SUV use the same powertrain, it is not a factor in the comparison. If you want high MPG, you need to think smaller, less frontal section, and lighter. (and going slower at highways speeds). I am not saying the HH or RH400 are bad vehicles their design purpose; on the contrary they are excellent designs. I am saying that their primary purpose is not high MPG, and people should not expect high MPG. Better than in ICE only SUV, yes, but not on on the same order as a smaller sedan. I mention this because I keep seeing posts from people who are displeased at their MPG, when in fact they are getting MPG within an expected range for this class of vehicle. People keep seeing "hybrid" and yet they only understand "high MPG". MPG is relative to the engine size (and tuning), the frontal area, and the weight of the vehicle - in short, the vehicle class.
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Replying to: stevedebi (Oct 03, 2005 3:10 pm) (See thread) The 3500 and 3950 lb weights mentioned are for the non-hybrid highlanders. A plug-in highlander hybrid can have effective gas mileage of 100 mpg. A plug-in Prius can have effective gas mileage of 150-200 mpg. I do not know if 100 mpg is good enough for you. If not then HH will not be an option. A hybrid vehicle is more efficient than a pure ICE vehicle but all the energy comes from gas. This is not a long term solution as gas will run out. A plug-in vehicle gets its energy from external electric grid and gas - hence multiple sources of energy. If gas can be replaced with bio-fuel then it becomes a long term solution. Once all the sources of energy that you use are renewable and eco-friendly (solar and bio-fules) it is not necessary to be very efficient in its use. There is enough solar energy in this world to meet global energy needs 1000 times over. |
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Replying to: stevedebi (Oct 03, 2005 10:52 am) Look at all the RX300 and RX330 clear majority of customers who are perfectly happy with the ~200 HP V6 in those. Yes, there are a few of those will be thrilled with the extra BOOST of 268 HP, but wouldn't the majority of us, even pre-$3 gas prices, have been happy with less HP and stellar fuel economy? Personally I think I'll pass on the Rx400h until Toyota wise's up and converts to the atkinson cycle. Or I find a custom cam grinding shop, grind the heads down to 13:1 compression, and do it myself. Or just thow a KGE3500Ti genset in the back and continously charge the hybrid batteries more economically, dramatically moreso, than the OEM ICE. |
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Replying to: dalemed (Sep 29, 2005 1:52 pm) Back to the original questions - I tow a ~3000lb tailer behind my 4wd. It is a Shadow Cruiser 189FBR, dual axle. The trailer tows very smoothly behind the Highlander. My only complaint is there seems to be towing mirrors available for the Highlander (except the generic ones that don't look or work very well). My only trip so far has been into the mountains about 100 miles from home. I got about 15mpg on that part of the tank while towing. The electric doesn't kick in much on the level, mostly is used for more power on hills, so you don't get many 'free' miles out of it. I got the 4wd for occasional snow, not for towing, but I assume it can't hurt to have the extra HP and traction for towing. I doubt you could get 20mpg under almost any situation while towing. The 15mpg I got was mostly 55mph to 30mph. Jim |
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