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Hybrid Vehicles Toyota Highlander Hybrid Towing with the Highlander Hybrid
84 messages, Last post on Sep 16, 2009 at 1:27 PM
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Replying to: dalemed (Sep 29, 2005 1:52 pm) Running the genset exhaust through the RX exhaust system might result in keeping the catalytic converter up to temp, or at least closer too. On the other hand if I were to use the Honda water cooled genset maybe I could also use the hot water to keep the climate control reheat/remix mode "happy" . Any thoughts...??
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Replying to: wwest (Sep 29, 2005 6:47 pm) The car is very efficient at recharging while in motion, it charges quickly when coasting and braking so charging is likely not a problem in motion. The most common complaint right now is what happens whenever we turn off and turn on the engine again. The ICE comes on and promptly consumes 0.1-0.2 MPG to heat oil and the CC. If the battery is low (2 pink bars), the ICE will consume 0.3 MPG to heat the oil, the CC and charge the battery until it is 3 bars. If one takes trips around town with many full-engine-off stops, this consumption can add up real quick. It is unclear what can be done after-market because SULEV standard requires the CC to work perfectly. Another complaint is why the car is not tuned to run on electric more often. I would love to have an EV switch and plug-in as well but the car is already engineered to be very responsive to driver demands. It can accelerate very fast and it can also crawl along on electric like a turtle. With patience and conservative driving techniques, one can get a lot from this vehicle as is. I hope one day Toyota will offer an upgrade to add plug-in, higher capacity battery pack and a soft-EV switch. My wish is the ability to accelerate from 0-65 MPH on electric and maintain 65 MPH for 30 miles on electric.
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Replying to: cdptrap (Sep 30, 2005 1:05 am) Note that the Prius' city fuel economy is substantially better than highway, both in actuality and according to EPA estimates. Given the design of the Hybrid Synergy concept that is as it should be. So what happened with the HH and RXh? I don't think it's entirely about the battery capacity being too low, I think the problem is that unlike the Prius the HH's ICE must be run often enough to keep the catalyst and the water jacket HOT! Resulting in poor city MPG but stellar highway MPG since on the highway the ICE must run almost continuously anyway. But regardless, using a 3.3L V6 gasoline engine to recharge the hybrid batteries can NEVER be as efficient as using a small 6HP genset running continuously. Mounted on a trailer with pair of bicycle type wheels/tires to reduce roadbed friction and in the airflow "shelter" of the towing vehicle (drafting??).
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Replying to: wwest (Sep 30, 2005 8:06 am)
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Replying to: cdptrap (Sep 30, 2005 11:14 am) There is a Lithium-ion phosphate battery called Saphion from Valence technology that can provide the necessary energy density and cost. The Edrive guys that are going to modify the Prius next year in LA are using this battery. About 14Kwh battery will weigh another extra 200 lb if the current NiMh battery is taken out. The cost can go down further if a company like Toyota gives mass orders for this battery. The battery can be used from 95% charge to 30% for pure electric. Not topping off and completely discharging the battery can extend its life to about 3000-4000 deep discharge cycles or about 8 years which should be enough. Changing the software to make max speed 65 on electric if charge is available is simple. This extra 9kwh of pure electric can give the 30 mile range for most commutes. If the accelerator is pressed hard then ICE will come on as an assist for rapid acceleration. When battery is at 30% the car reverts to current hybrid mode. Assuming 12K miles driving per year and 8K commute wth electric the effective gas mileage will be ideally 90 mpg. I think 80 mpg is doable. Charging costs $1 per night. If using solar panels it will be 0. This is as opposed to fuel cells which currently costs $1 million.
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Replying to: igh (Sep 30, 2005 5:24 pm) From previous research (pre-Valence), I found out that the HH uses the Panasonic Metal Case Prismatic batteries. I believe it also uses their CCU (Charge Controller). The NiMh has significantly higher power throughput, double that of lithium-ion while lithium-ion has significantly higher specific energy, double that of NiMh. I believe Wisconsin U conducted research on this and their conclusion was for HEV to use NiMh for now due to its higher power throughput, a requirement for HEV. Thanks for the tip on Valence, looking forward to reading their spec. |
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Replying to: cdptrap (Oct 01, 2005 7:57 pm) reduced acceleration requirements in city driving and at sustained speeds in highway driving. When further power is needed the ICE is always there for assist. Another option that Toyota has is to use the 2.4L 160 HP I4 ICE engine in a greener model trim hybrid instead of the 210 HP 3.3L V6. This will reduce weight by 150 lb offsetting the extra battery weight. It will reduce cost by 2k. So plug-in will be just $2-3K extra. It will give additional 3-4mpg in pure hybrid mode. Mate this with 2, 40 Kw electric motors on both axels or 4, 20 kw motors at the 4 wheels. 0-60 acceleration will be 9.5s instead of 7.3s using both power. This can be enough for many people. Then effective mpg can exceed 100mpg. |
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Replying to: igh (Oct 01, 2005 9:39 pm) Personally, just speaking as a consumer, I am very satisfied with the car. It has a very fine balance of performance and thriftiness, handling and ride smoothness, and overall interior comfort is very good. The stereo is not too shabby either. From a strictly "value" standpoint for cars in its class with comparable performance, this car has a ton of value especially with gas up to $3.22 (premium) a gallon where I live (SF Bay, CA). If CR's numbers of the other tested cars are believable, my HH is getting 69% to 115% better mpg than these cars! If Toyota offers all sorts of upgrades for better mpg without sacrificing performance, I will definitely consider them but even if Toyota does nothing, I am very happy with this purchase. |
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Replying to: igh (Sep 30, 2005 5:24 pm) Ace Techno - Larry |
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Replying to: acetechno (Oct 02, 2005 5:20 pm) The ICE will kick in to keep you at over 1 bar on the traction battery. The system is designed to keep you between 20 and 80% charged (thereabouts) and not more of less for maximum battery lifetime. When we first got it, i could get up to around 20 on the motor. Now I can get close to 40, from a standstill, but only by being really stealthy about accelerating. We love sneaking around on battery at tailgates, and so on. The ICE will always kick in to warm up the catalytic converter when you're just starting out with a cold engine. It's not ideal, but it improves emissions scores, which are apparently stupidly conceived with respect to hybrids. Make sure you're aligned properly (its not the same as the non-hybrid, so i understand), and most of us run high tire pressures - I use 40 psi all around. Air conditioning will cost you several mpg. There are a lot of advanced tricks, such as pulse-and-glide, explained elsewhere, because i'm sure i do it wrong. -- rick
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